Looks like we are all here. All right,

So Megan, should I call

us to order again? Okay.

So good evening everyone,

and welcome to the July 11th,

2023 meeting of the Wellesley

Select Board.

This meeting may be viewed

by a live stream on Wellesley

media.org and viewed on

Comcast Channel eight

and Verizon Channel 40.

This is a Zoom meeting with the following

members of the Wellesley Select Board

present and participating remotely.

And Mara Lonza, Tom Felder,

Beth Sullivan Woods, Colette, o'

Frank, and myself, Lisa Olney.

So welcome everybody. Do we have

anyone for citizen speak? Megan?

We do not have anyone on the line

for citizen speak. Okay, awesome.

Everybody's outta town probably. Okay.

So the first item is

executive directors update.

I'll just say quickly

before Megan starts that,

I'm just gonna note for the board that

we're gonna be voting on the minutes at

our next regular meeting.

There were a number of substantive

changes proposed to the previous draft,

and just from a process standpoint,

we're gonna reissue the original draft

and any substantive changes should be

proposed at our next meeting as

amendments so that they can be clearly

considered by the board. So, Megan,

do you wanna proceed?

Sure. I had a couple announcements that

I wanted to make and then we just have

a gift to accept. So with

regards to announcements one,

this Saturday, July 15th

from nine 30 to four 30,

be the wildest Grand Merchant

Association's July jubilation.

And so the road on Central Street

will be closed during those that time.

Lots of activities and events, we

encourage everyone to check it out. Also,

on Thursday,

the Charles River Watershed Association

will be hosting a walking tour along

Fuller Brook, and as part of that,

you can contact or, or

join that it's at 10:00 AM

and they'll go through the,

how it recently restored the

tributary to the Charles River.

And then just a brief announcement from

Health Department of Communications

with our health director Lenny Zo, with

the amount of rain and heat we've had,

we just want to let people know that

comes about discussing mosquitoes that

our d pws out currently treating

our catch patients with Larvicide.

Timing of this treatment will give us

effective coverage at least through

August. In addition,

we want to remind residents to empty

any standing water on their property and

take personal protective measures

when outside, during dusk and dawn.

So with the amount of rain we've had,

when you have things outside buckets,

et cetera, that you forget,

just dump 'em out and that that helps

keep our mosquito population down.

So Lenny wanted me to

just relay that for folks.

And then we also had one

vote of a gift acceptance.

The Park Andry D division

received a donation of labor from

Hartney Graymont who celebrated Arbor

Day by working on the Town Station Oak.

The value of this was approximately

$5,000. So we, we think,

I actually went by the day

people were working on it,

and the Station Oak is our champion

tree right in front of the post office.

And it was pretty

substantial work that they,

they went and checked all the

cabling and did substantial pruning.

So thank you to them for that gift.

So we would just need an

acceptance of that from the board.

And well, if there are no

questions about the gift, Beth,

could we have the motion please? Sure.

Move to approve the gift from Hartney

Graymont of services that included

pruning, fertilizing,

and checking the cabling of the Town

Station Oak with an estimated value of

$5,000.

Second Amara. Aye.

Beth Aye. Tom. Aye.

Colette Aye. And I vote Aye as well.

I think that's it, right, Megan?

For the, for your update? Yes.

And so next thing is we're gonna vote

on the legal services agreement for

pfas litigation.

So Dave Cohen is joining us. Dave,

do you wanna give the board just

a brief update on this litigation?

Sure thing. And and before I do

that, I, I hope you don't mind,

and if you wouldn't mind

indulging me just to make a,

a brief sat announcement to let the board

and the community know that this past

weekend,

Paul de Phillips Park and Tree

assistant superintendent passed away

after a year long battle with cancer

and we're all very saddened by it.

And I just wanted to

mention that and, you know,

let Paul and his family know that, that

we're thinking of, of him and them,

and also Parks family here at Park

and Tree, who I know is really,

really thrilling from this. It's

been a, it's been a tough haul,

but Paul is finally at rest after

a, a, a, a, a really strong fight.

But he did pass away this weekend and

so wanted to just make mention of that.

So thank you for letting

me share that. Thank.

You Dave.

I just hope you'll convey to his

family how very sorry we are from the,

from the select board we're our

deepest sympathies to, to his family.

I will do that. Thank.

You. And to everyone, everyone at the

D P W who worked with him as well.

Of course.

Appreciate that. Thank you.

And Paul would want us to get right

back to business. So, so regarding pfas,

as, as you know, since the pfas

issue emerged a couple years ago,

we've been entertaining conversations

with various law firms about getting

involved in class action

litigation related to pfas.

And over, over the past

couple years, we've,

we've been through a few presentations

and interviews with some different firms

and we've finally come

to the point where we,

we are recommending to move forward

with SL Environmental Law Group and

Partners.

And so we have an agreement

for the board to consider that

would have,

have this law firm and their

related firms represent Wellesley

in any potential class action,

legal action or civil actions that

might take place related to pfas.

And we would be joining more

than a dozen Massachusetts

communities.

We'd be joining the state of Massachusetts

among others and over a hundred other

jurisdictions in, in the United

States that have jumped on with,

with this particular law

group. And we've done some,

some outreach and some reference

checking and, and feel,

feel good about entering into an

agreement with, with this group.

So we recommend favorable action from the,

from the select board on this and happy

to have any questions that you might

have.

Thank you, Dave.

So I'll just mention for the benefit of

the public that we did have a discussion

of this in executive session,

so a lot of the board's

questions I think were answered,

but if anyone has anything

additional they'd like to say,

now would be a good time. Okay.

Thank you so much Dave.

We really appreciate your pursuing

this on behalf of the town.

It's a matter of great

concern to everyone and

really glad that you're on top of this.

Lisa, Lisa, if you don't mind,

maybe it's also good to also

maybe set expectations

with folks that, you know,

people might be hearing reports

about lots of money that, that,

that might be out there. And, and I,

I think we wanna be conservative

about our expectations here, that,

that this is a low risk

but potentially low reward.

But we wanna make sure that if there are

any settlements that we don't miss out

on those opportunities.

But there may not be millions of

dollars coming our way on this,

but whatever it is, we want to take

advantage of that. And so this is,

this will protect our

interests in the event that,

that any dollars do become available.

Absolutely. Thank you. Okay. If,

if the board has no further comments,

we'll I'll ask for a motion please. Beth.

Move to approve the legal

services agreement for the pfas

action litigation and to authorize

executive director Megan job to sign on

behalf of the town.

Second Beth Aye. Tom Aye.

Colette Aye. And Mara Aye.

And I vote Aye as well.

Thank you very much, Dave.

Thank you all. Have a great night.

You too.

So we are going to move on to the

interview and vote of the interim fire

chief.

Thanks Lisa. So with us

tonight, in addition to the

candidates is Brian Duggan,

the town's consultant from

Municipal Resources Inc.

To assist the board with this

process. And in addition is Chief pki.

Chief PKI has been assisting me

through this process for both the

interim chief search as well as

our PR initial fire chief search,

which has led us here today. So with

that, it would be my expectation,

I'm gonna turn it over to Brian to give

an introduction and then the board has a

series of questions.

I think we'll after Brian's introduction

we'll turn it back to Lisa to,

to start off the questions and then

we can, we can take it from there.

Okay. Thank you Megan.

Can everyone hear me okay?

Okay. Yes.

Thank you. So again, as Megan said,

w we've sort of navigated

a path through a search and

recruited and interviewed two candidates

that are gonna come before the board

tonight as potential interim fire chiefs.

The first candidate is with

us. Ready? Todd Germaine.

So Todd, if you can hear me, why don't

you turn your mic on and your video

and we'll introduce him. So everybody.

Hi there.

Todd comes to us from

Portsmouth, New Hampshire,

where he served three years as

fire chief and emergency manager.

And in addition to that, he served

eight years as Shift Commander.

Prior to coming to you tonight,

Todd has interviewed with us and

with Megan and the chief on two

occasions, once with us and

once with our entire team,

including Megan and the chief and

was vetted through that process.

So he survived us. So we're, we're

hoping he can survive you as well.

Todd is actually traveling.

Todd, you're in London, correct?

Glasgow, Scotland.

So he is calling in quite

remotely and with that I'm sure

he'll say much more about his career

history as we go through things.

So I'll turn it over to the chair and

then we'll follow up with questions

afterwards. Lisa.

Great. Thank you Brian. And thank you

Chief lucky for being here as well.

So what we thought we'd do is

have the board members go around

sort of picking your top priority

questions from that great list that

we got from Brian of suggested questions.

And then if you have a follow-up question,

you could go ahead with

that and then we'll move on.

And then if we still have

time, hopefully we will,

Megan can go through the

remaining questions to the,

to the extent that we're able,

just a reminder that we'll be asking

both candidates the same questions.

So, so I will just start us off.

There were so many great questions

here. I, it was hard to choose, but I,

I'd really be grateful to hear Todd,

about your management style and how

you would approach the need for change

within the Wellesley fire department.

Sure. First of all, hello to everybody

and thanks for the opportunity to,

to be here tonight. As far as

my, my management style, I'm,

I'm very much a democratic type

of manager. I seek collaboration,

I seek input from,

from all stakeholders to the best

that I can. I've had a, a pretty,

pretty successful career both in, in as a,

as a firefighter and,

and a shift commander in my roles as union

executives as well as on this side of

the desk as a manager to be able to

facilitate communication and

collaboration between, you know,

particularly labor and management. And

that's, that's pretty much probably my,

my biggest strength and what I bring,

I think to the table in this situation.

As far as, as affecting change,

I'm not deeply familiar with the,

with the issues within the

Wellesley Fire Department,

just sort of on the surface. Obviously

there are some leading us to, you know,

the conversation tonight. But

as we figure out what those are,

I think I have an ability to, to bring

all sides to the table, so to speak,

and, and, and find some,

some common ground as far as

affecting change. Again, you know, it,

it starts at the top obviously,

but you gotta get the

middle management involved.

You gotta get the middle

management convinced that

the changes for the better of

them and the whole department.

And I think, you know,

that's for me the best place to

start. And, and also, you know,

from what I understand,

there's a good opportunity now cause

there's a lot of younger firefighters,

a lot of younger generation

coming through and they,

and they're almost the

majority. So I think, you know,

the more you can get that group of

people involved and and acceptable the

change, the, the easier

that change or the quicker,

at least that change may come. So.

Great. Well, thank you. So just to

make sure I heard you correctly,

you were saying your biggest strength

was essentially bringing all sides to the

table. Is that kind of.

Yeah, I've had very good luck

facilitating that communication with,

you know, with the department I I

worked in, there were two labor unions,

one for the firefighters and

one for the fire officers.

And then of course you

have the management.

And even prior to being

a chief in my role as,

as leaders of, of those

labor unions, I, I made a,

a concerted effort to,

to make sure that those lines of

communication from that side to the

management, you know, was always

open and, and and facilitated.

And then of course when I get on

this on the other side of the desk,

I carried through with that as well

to make sure that those lines of

communication were always

there. And I think, you know,

when you get all the stakeholders together

and you get 'em all sort of looking

in the, in the right direction,

in the same direction and that's when

things can positively change and you can

actually make a difference.

Awesome. Thank you very much.

So can I see hands for

who'd like to go next? Beth?

Great. Nice to meet you Mr. Ger. Hi.

Beth, nice to meet you.

So you are coming from

Portsmouth, New Hampshire, right?

Which is correct, a little

bit bigger of a department,

correct.

Little bit, not, not too much

bigger but a little bit bigger.

One additional station and

a few more people per shift.

So I'm wondering what are the differences

that you see between your most

recent position and the position of

interim chief in the town of Wellesley?

Well, I mean, the difference would be

in, in my position in Portsmouth, I,

you know, came up through the ranks.

I was intimately familiar with the,

with the department for,

you know, 30 years and,

and when became the chief, you know,

I had all that internal knowledge,

I had all that institutional

knowledge and history.

So obviously that would be a difference

coming to Wellesley. And also I think,

you know, from what I

understand there would be a,

a series of goals and objectives

as, as, as prescribed by,

I guess probably Megan and, and and

the board to find, you know, to,

to achieve or to, to accomplish

in the time that I'm there.

So I think it would be more

short term planning and goal.

Not that I wouldn't try to,

to facilitate and try to try to move

along some longer term, you know,

goals and management while

you're there. Cause you don't,

you don't want someone in there for a

year just to think about that one year.

You still have to, as the fire

chief, you still have to plan ahead.

You still have to be looking,

you know, at the horizon to,

to make sure that things are moving

forward in 2, 3, 5, 8 years. So, I mean,

you know, as, as the chief

in Portsmouth, you know,

that was sort of my focus vision

was that further, you know,

outlook and we're here, I think I would

have to concentrate as much, you know,

on the shorter term of those goals

and objectives, but also, you know,

making sure the department moves

forward in a, you know, in a,

in a futuristic situ, you know, futuristic

look as well. If that makes sense.

Sorry, it's, it's almost

midnight here, so.

It's okay. So Lisa, did you

wanna follow up now or wait? Yes,

so now would be good. Okay.

So I guess my follow up question

is what is it about this

position that has caused you to

apply for it and be interested?

To be honest, I was asked if I

would be interested in in, in,

in doing an interim stint

here by the folks from mri.

And honestly, I, I, you know,

I've been just about nine

months out from retirement,

my wife and I did a lot of traveling

over the winter and we're sort of,

you know, in a, a little bit

of a limbo state right now.

So it actually worked out

pretty nicely, you know,

the offer that when it came through.

So I mean, we're, you know, if we,

if it happens that, that I get

the position we'll be, you know,

looking for a place, you know, right

away down in that area to, to be,

to move to for the time

that I'm there. So that's,

that's really what got me interested.

And to be, I'll be honest, I I,

I miss, you know,

I miss I missed it a little bit and

in having these interviews with,

with I and, and with Megan and, and Chief

Eck, you know, getting back into the,

the thought of, of all this again,

it's kinda exciting. So I'm,

I'm looking forward to follow

through with it if possible.

Great. Thank you so much.

Welcome.

And Mara, thank you. And Todd,

thank you so much for taking the time

to meet with us today. You're welcome.

So Lisa stole my question, so I

have a different question. So how,

I guess how do you communicate with,

involve and motivate your staff and

preserve the command structure within the

organization?

And I think it would be helpful to

maybe if you had like maybe a specific

example of a situation

that you had to deal

with and how you worked

through it and were able

how you were able to use

your communication skills to

work through the situation

and at the end of the day, dealing

with the difficult situation,

still have a staff that was

motivated and ready to Sure.

It's, I'm trying to, it's a lengthy one,

but I'll try to trim it down for, for,

for brevity here.

We had a situation where we had

a promotion to make for, for a,

a lieutenant and there were only two

people left on the promotion list.

Policy dictated that I recommend to

our board of fire commissioners, one,

at least one person for the position.

And in my estimation and the

estimation of my shift commanders and

some outside references that neither

of these of these individuals should be

promoted for, for lack of a better

way to put it, for reasons of safety.

And, and so being responsible for

everyone in the department and,

and having the final say, at least

in my opinion, I had the final say.

I chose not to positively

recommend either one of them,

but before I did that I brought each

of them in, discussed, you know,

the issues that I had and the, the ship

commanders had with them and, you know,

face-to-face with, you know, and said

right up front, this is, you know,

this is what I'm not going

to do and what I'm gonna do.

I brought their union presidents in and

told 'em the same thing and, you know,

the reasons that I was going

to do so, and you know, I,

I offered them sort of a

threw of a way out of it.

They chose not to take it, they

chose to instead file a grievance,

went to a lengthy arbitration

over a year. But, you know,

the whole, the whole time we had open

communications, but I wasn't trying to,

to subvert anybody. I wasn't

trying to go around anybody or,

or didn't do anything behind his

back or, or anything like that.

I wanted to make sure that they

were upfront as to why one of the,

the individuals actually took, you know,

the advice that we gave him and pretty

much turned himself around and to the

point now he's actually sitting as the

next person to be promoted up there from

what I understand. And then the other

person went the other way and, and,

and oftentimes and repeatedly

seems to prove, you know,

that we did, we made the right

decision, I think. But anyway,

and in the end, we, we won the ar

the city won the arbitration. They,

they sided with, with myself, you know,

making the right decision or had having

the ability to make that decision.

And you know, when it was all over,

it was shortly before I retired and one

month after the arbitration case came

through, both unions voted to,

to make me honorary lifetime

members of their union.

So I'm not sure how to take that,

but seemed to work out on my end. So,

but that, if that's a, if that's

an example as to what I could,

how I communicated, if,

if that helps. Yeah.

No, that's a great example. Thank you.

And so it sounds like in that case you

ended up with an employee who maybe was

not very motivated and was maybe

a little unhappy for that year.

Was that a challenge that you had to

deal with or is that something that was

dealt with, you know, lower

down the chain of command?

It was dealt with more of

the lower chain of command.

This person was a bit of

an outlier. So I don't,

I don't know as if it really, it didn't

really spread throughout the department,

but you know, the other

person who, you know,

really just sort of turned around and,

and became more involved and, you know,

that that's that motivation, I

mean, flipped him around, you know,

and I think he,

he was pretty upfront about not realizing

that those were the reasons that were

holding him up. And when he

did realize it, you know,

he did the right thing and, and

he took and he took off with it.

The other person unfortunately

dug their heels in. But again,

it didn't really affect anyone because

everyone else in the department saw the

same thing that we did. So.

Okay. Well thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Tom.

Thank you. And thank you for joining us,

given the hour. We've had this experience

with another member of our board too,

and it's not,

not easy and basically in a situation

like this where you're interviewing,

so we really appreciate it. The,

the whole concept of an interim chief,

I think has been interesting and seems

to have grown organically out of our

work with M R I and an evaluation of their

sense along with our

management team and chief pki

about where the department

needs to go as a result in the

recommendation for a 12 month term.

I think it puts a lot of

pressure on organization and goal

orientation in terms of what

needs to be accomplished.

So how would you work with the M R I

team to determine progress on goals

and objectives and support an

officer development program?

So from what I understand, again,

there'll be goals and objectives and,

and I think if it's not the plan,

I would suggest the plan to be

that we meet, if not, you know,

monthly or quarterly to find out where

we are at with those objectives with,

with MRI and probably with

Megan to find out, you know,

to see where it is we're at, see how

the, you know, how the progress is,

is moving along. You know,

really the first few months is gonna be

me getting to know them and them getting

to know me. To your

earlier point, you know,

I'm not really familiar with

interim, an interim position.

This is is a new thing for me.

It doesn't really happen much,

it doesn't seem to have happened

much anyway in New Hampshire.

I I actually know a couple of chiefs

that have done it and spoken with them

briefly as to, you know,

process and so on. But

I, I think that's, I think

that's the plan is to,

is to just be in constant contact. And

I think I would be in a a, you know,

a weekly or, or more than a few times

a week communication with Megan,

at least to begin with, to make

sure that, you know, we're,

we're headed in the right direction,

that we're heading in

the right direction and,

and her eyes and in the eyes of the

board for sure. You know, I think,

you know, my goal is gonna

be to, to find or, or to,

I think from what I understand, there's,

there's internal candidates that are

capable of taking this position if given,

you know, the opportunity to do so or

perhaps you know, the right direction.

And, you know, in my, in my years

in the fire service, you know, I,

I I believe that these, these le the

leadership should come from within.

I think it, I think it's best for the

organization that, you know, that,

that the leadership comes from within

and moves their way up through.

So as far as I'm concerned,

my position here is,

is gonna be to foster that and

to, to, to make that happen.

To find that person or,

or that person's already identified

and bring them along up through.

I think that internal knowledge and

that internal rise up through the

ranks is what's best for the

organization as a whole in the end.

Thank you. Welcome.

I think it's left to me the,

the Scottish member of the board who

has been in your position before.

So I appreciate your, the middle

of the night in my hometown.

It, it's okay.

It's so easy to stay up here cause it

doesn't get dark till like 10 30, so.

It does not, yeah, just try it

in the middle of winter though,

when it's dark at three

in the afternoon. Yeah.

No, no, I'm not gonna do that.

Well, thank you for your time today

and I appreciate your answers already.

Some of my top questions

have already been selected,

so I would like to ask

you to talk maybe about a

deeper dive into your 90 day plan and

what are some specific projects that

you would like to collaborate with your

staff to bring positive change

to the Wellesley Fire Department?

What are two top two examples of something

you might focus on in the initial 90

day period?

Sure. Well, in addition to, you know,

getting my bearings in Wellesley

and within the department,

certainly I would, you know, in the

first week to 10 days, week to two weeks,

I would want to meet with the

command staff, my command staff.

It was immediately below the

chief. And then with the,

the senior staff as far

as the shift commanders,

the deputies meet with the

union presidents or president,

I'm not sure how many unions

have there meet with, you know,

the union leadership and get everybody

sort of at least face to face and,

and try to, and try to get everyone on

the same page to see which way, you know,

which way we're gonna go from

there. I think, you know,

as far as as things we could

do in the department, you know,

a good exercise,

which would be a good exercise

for potential leaders in

the department as well as good

for the department is, you know,

put together a a five-year plan

if one doesn't exist already,

which can be good not only, you

know, in the, in the short term for,

for the purposes that of the interim

situation in the development of,

of leadership, but also in the long

term. You know, it can be used, you know,

in years to come for planning and

budgeting and so on, you know,

that would help any department. And

there's also there, there, you know,

we've done self assessments before in

our departments before where, you know,

you sort of just gather all the, all the

data and all the facts, you know, and,

and put 'em into one document that sort

of is a sort of a snapshot of where

you're at now, where you

have been and you know,

where we look to go in the

future in addition to, you know,

that would be separate from like

a five year, you know, planning,

planning document outside of that. Or

it could be a 10 year planning document,

what what have you. But

I just think, you know,

I was thinking that earlier that that

would be a good exercise or something to

do again for, you know, the

immediate situation that we're in,

but also would benefit something that

we could do that would also benefit the

department to have on file

anyway, you know, for the future.

Thank you. And I'm gonna use as my

follow up, I'm gonna ask you to ask,

talk a little bit more about budgeting

and what of experience you've had in

trying to, you know, evaluate

a, a department's budget,

find where there might

be gaps, like you said,

build into a five-year plan. Tell us

more about your experience with that.

Experience with budgeting. You know,

just, I, I don't, I would have to get,

I would have to sit down with,

with Megan for a couple hours

to go over town budgeting.

I'm not too familiar with,

you know, how a town,

especially Massachusetts

would do that. I'm, you know,

I'm sure it's something

pick up easy enough.

But as far as my budgeting experience

with city budgets, you know,

our budget cycle started in November,

you know, or our October of, you know,

the year to, to follow up for the

July one beginning of the fiscal year.

So our budget process were pretty long.

It started with capital budget

processing. I was able to actually,

my first year as chief, I was

able to find a way to stagger our,

we had to replace two ladder

trucks within a couple of years.

I was able to evaluate one and get it to,

to a position and get it refurb to a

point where it could last long enough that

we could purchase just

one aerial truck for,

to run first do for 10 years and then

keep that other one reserved for 10 years,

save the city, you know, a couple million

dollars and spread out the cost of,

you know, having two aerial ladder truck

purchases within a couple years. So,

I mean, it seems like there's

always things we can find

in gaps there. And then,

you know, budgeting is always

looking back to find out, you know,

what you've spent before and

you know, what, what you,

what you can try to not

spend the next time.

We had around a nine and a half to

$10 million budget when I left. So,

and you know, and I think it's, if it's

no different here, I'm sure you know,

your personnel and, and the fixed

costs are up in probably the high 80%,

you know, early 90%. So, you know,

your discretionary spending and things

that you have a lot of room for is pretty

small, but, you know, anything you

can find in there is, is a savings.

And you know, certainly that's, you

know, that's what we always look forward,

you know, look, look to do

is find those savings in the,

in the places that we can,

that we have any control over.

Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate

your approach to smoothing out costs and,

you know, appropriately budgeting

for capital items. So thank you.

You're welcome.

Megan, do we,

so I think we have a little

more time, right? Yeah.

It should be seven 20.

The next candidate should be jumping on.

Okay. So Megan, do you wanna just go

through some of the other questions?

Sure. Hold on.

I'm just scrolling back

up to my questions.

What are some examples, Todd,

of things that you could do to make this

in intern position and intern internal

mentorship a success.

Again, without knowing a lot

of the internal, you know,

nuts and bolts of the

situation, I guess from, if I'm,

if I remember it correctly or if I get

the sense that there are candidates or

candidate internally that have, you know,

a good look at being in this position,

working just closely with,

with that person or those

people on a day-to-day basis.

It's the best of my ability or the

best of their ability depending on the

schedule and the shift. And

just, you know, to me, and,

and, and I was, I did this in

Portsmouth when I had a, a new,

I had a assistant fire chief,

my assistant fire chief retired.

I had a new one come up through who

was a shift captain at the time,

which would be a deputy in your

department. And you know, we,

we worked together on a lot of things

before that person even became the

assistant chief so that they could

seamlessly walk into that position when,

you know, the other person retired. And

that was just a matter of, you know,

if I had, like, if I had a

budget presentation to make

or if I had, you know, a,

a meeting, a commission

meeting of some kind or a or,

or a committee meeting to

invite that person along,

bring them into my office and, you know,

work on a document together or work on a

PowerPoint together just to get a sense

of, you know, this is, this is what it

is, this is what being a fire chief is.

It's, you know, it's

making this PowerPoint on,

on this budget presentation or

whatever. And or just bring,

I brought 'em in and like, listen, here's,

you know, here's our capital budget,

here's our capital outlay. You know, what,

what do you have for ideas? You know,

I don't, I don't have all the

answers. So I think, you know,

if we identify that person and bring

that, and I can do that with that person,

that's how I would like

to, to play this just,

just to be as transparent and open as

possible with this person and essentially,

you know, not get to the point,

but for lack of a better way to put

it co-chief with this person and,

and get the feel for whether they're

getting the feel for it or not, or just,

you know, I can say that, you know, if

they, if they have an idea, I'd be like,

well, yeah, I can see where that works,

but I can tell you in this

experience where it didn't work,

maybe we need to tweak it a

little bit to make it work into,

into what your idea might

be. Does that make sense?

That's great. One other

important factor is,

I know having been chief that

in a very visible location in

the imports that where the

firehouse happens to sit,

you had significant engagement

with the community. Yeah.

So even in a one year interim

position, what are some strategies or,

or ways that you would be able to engage

with the residents of the community and

involve the community?

Yeah, I mean to, to the

extent that you can and,

and I'm not sure what has already

been, you know, done there or what,

what happens now for community

engagement. But you know, there's,

there's always, you know,

social clubs or senior

citizen organizations or

you know, the schools or obviously

a good way to do it, just,

just being out there,

you know, if there's a,

if there's an event going on that

it's appropriate or, or even remotely,

appropriate to have a firetruck at

or a fire prevention person or myself

or whatever to be at, then you have

to be at those things, you know,

I mean like touch a truck

or type thing, you know,

if there's something like that going

on, you know, we should be there.

The fire department should be there. I

think, you know, and it's the matter of,

you know, getting, I I, I

was a proponent of, you know,

if if the crew wants to go out and

park the truck down on, you know,

on the downtown and go walk over

and get a coffee, coffee shop,

then they should do that because,

you know, it gets them out there.

People ask them questions maybe, you know,

they give directions to somebody

and it's a positive impact,

it's a positive experience there with

the public. I'm all for that. And in,

in the past they think, you know, in my

experience anyway, we've had, you know,

chiefs and, and leadership that, you know,

that wasn't allowed and that was

discouraged and, you know, it just,

to me it just seemed

counterintuitive to what you,

what we do and why we're

there. You're community. We're

know, reach out and ask a question or

you know, look at the truck, you know,

if a kid gets a, i, you know, get a

chance to step on a fire truck, you know,

that's a positive experience. You know,

the parents realize that. And, you know,

anytime you can get good, good face

value like that, you gotta do it.

So I mean that's, those

the kind of things that,

at least that's my philosophy

as far as that's concerned.

Great. Thanks again. If you're good,

I'll do the next two and then

swap back to you. Great. Okay.

So Todd, thinking about sort

of things that guide you,

what are three principles that would

guide you as an interim chief and

Wellesley, and why do they

stand out based on your career,

your life experience?

Well, honesty and integrity

and, and you know,

just a good work ethic. I mean, you know,

I guess I, I don't really know

how else to put that. I mean,

those are pretty obvious

things that again, you know,

be being honest with

everyone and, and, and, and,

and being able to establish

that honesty, which,

which leads to integrity in the

department. Again, you know, that's,

that's how I was a successful fire

chief in Portsmouth. And you know,

in know, well I guess, you know,

well respected as I was there was,

I was honest with everyone and, and

then I did develop that integrity and,

you know, and the work ethic is

there as well. You know, be there,

be there every day, be it

all the functions, be it the

things you need to be at,

you know, and, and, and, and keep your

face out there and, and, you know,

just get dirty beside what you have to,

you know, that's just part of the deal.

And you know, those, I guess, you know,

those are the, the principles. I mean,

you know, I grew, I grew up in, in

Northern New Hampshire, you know, and,

you know, you know, dad made

sure I worked for my dad.

Any of you out there worked for

your parents, you know, in the past.

But it's not always easy. And, you

know, one thing I learned was, you know,

if you wanted a day's pay, put in a

day's work. And I just, that's how I've,

I've lived through my career and I think,

you know, it's gotten me to where I,

where I was or, you know,

hope to be again someday.

Okay, thank you.

What would be your approach to a

couple of issues? First of all,

diversity in the Wellesley Fire Department

and recruitment of new firefighters

in a sort of very quickly

changing job market.

Yeah, we hit on the, you hit

on the number one, you know,

challenge of fire departments

around the world right now is,

is recruitment and retention and, and

you know, to some extent diversity,

just, there's an article in the

globe today about, you know,

hiring people on the cape,

unable to hire fire firefighters to work

in the departments that they, you know,

or to live in the towns of the departments

they work in. And you know, that's,

that's common all over the place now,

as, as housing becomes more expensive,

you know, we, we had those

issues in Portsmouth. Again,

it's just a high rent area and you know,

we weren't paid very well at the time.

And so, you know, we really had to

just put the word out for recruitment,

you know, everywhere. Not just in the

local papers or in the local, you know,

trade magazine or whatever. You

had to put it out everywhere.

You had to bring everybody in and gotta

the point where cold called people.

And you know, also part of that is,

you know, to improve diversity was to,

is to get out with the

publications that target, you know,

the more diverse populations. And,

you know, I'm happy to say that in my,

in my time as the chief,

we were recognized by the state of New

Hampshire having the most gender diverse

fire department in the state by having

five female firefighters, you know, by,

so by percentage. And it was only five,

but we were the largest, you know,

percentage in the state.

And I'm also very proud of being

able to promote the first female

lieutenant in the history of our

department and was able to mentor her and,

and bring her to a point where,

you know, she was, she became,

she got first on the lieutenant's test

and I was so happy to promote her. So,

but as far as, you know, the recruitment

stuff and retention, you know,

the recruitment, you gotta get more, you

know, the word out there and retention,

you gotta, you know,

obviously money's the number one thing

that brings people in and keeps 'em

there. But, you know, when

you've exhausted that avenue,

you gotta sort of add value to the, to

the job. And you gotta make it a more,

you know, pleasant place to work. The,

the years and the days of, you know,

tormenting, you know, the new

firefighters and, you know, and,

and that sort of thing is, is it's

just, it's not acceptable anymore. And,

and as far as I'm concerned, it needs

to go by the wayside. If it hasn't yet,

you know, you need to be able to

positively reinforce, you know, these,

these younger firefighters

when they come in,

they're a completely different generation.

They think of a completely different

way than we did when we came in.

And I think, you know,

when the leadership needs to spread

that word to the middle management,

to the captains or the, the

lieutenants and the deputies, you know,

to foster that relationship that, you

know, these new firefighters need,

need your help, they need your mentoring.

You know, if they have questions,

answer 'em, you know,

don't just tell 'em to do something

because you told 'em to do it. Just,

ask 'em to do something and explain

to them why you're asking to do that.

And I think, you know, that goes a

long way to retention. If they're,

if they're happy there,

then they'll stay there.

Okay. And sort of a,

a final follow up part of you

mentioned there's a number of new

firefighters, and that's

certainly the case in Wellesley.

How do you as chief prepare these

new firefighters to sort of get

ready for a changing future of

the fire service in America?

Be upfront with 'em. You

know, tell 'em, you know,

you gotta make sure they understand,

you know, what the, what the job is. I,

I hired I think a dozen firefighters

in my time as chief in Portsmouth. And,

and a few of them after a few

months realized, you know,

for whatever reason that this wasn't,

this wasn't their thing. And you know,

I didn't, if they came

in and said, you know,

we gave me a reason why they didn't

think it was their thing, you know,

I didn't encourage them to

stay if they felt, you know,

that strongly about it because, you

know, I think at that point, if, if it's,

if you don't like it now, it's

not gonna get any better for you.

So you gotta be honest with 'em. And

you know, and unfortunately you do,

you do lose a few that way. But, you

know, in, in the interview process,

bringing them in, you know, you really

hammer home, you know, what the job is,

what the, you know, what the commitments

are and you know, and, and, and the,

the risks involved. And, and,

and then when they're, you know,

when they're on the shift again, you

gotta sort of, you gotta keep the,

the line officers in the

middle management, you

know, on a, on a course of,

you know,

just better communication

and better relationships

with the younger firefighters

so that, you know, they, it's their job

to tell them and to explain to them,

you know, what the job is and, and

coach them and train them, you know,

and bring them along. So again,

just impress upon that, you know,

those deputies and lieutenants

that, you know, they, you, you're,

you're there to help them, you're there

for them. And, you know, I guess that's,

that's how I would do that. You know,

it's not something that the sheep is

gonna go down and talk to every new

firefighter on the floor, you know, and

convince him to stay or not stay. Right.

So.

Okay. Thank you. Megan, you

wanna take the next two?

There's more.

Just a few.

So we maybe have time for, I'd say it's

seven 17. Brian, what do you think? One,

one more?

Yeah, why don't we do one more.

Cause we've done these out of

order. I gotta look, hold on.

So although this is a, you

know, a a shorter stay,

why don't you discuss how you've

engaged with the other departments

in, in Portsmouth and how you would go

about engaging with the departments here.

It's, it's through the other

departments within the town chair.

When I first became the chief, the,

the manager of the city sort of sort of

got the department heads in a position

where they've sort of competed against

each other. So, and then we had a

change of, of leadership at the,

at the city manager level. And,

and then we had Covid and you know,

we went from a position of sort of having

our own little islands within the city

everybody's on the same island and we

better start figuring things out cause the

water's rising, right? So we were able to,

to have to collaborate together and

have to get together and do things and,

and that, you know, once, you know,

COVID waned and, and, and started to end,

we found that, you know,

we had much better working

relationships and things were, you know,

just all of our, all of our

situations were, were much,

much better because we meshed

together. We knew each other more,

we knew each other better. And you

know, we, we were just, especially with,

you know, public works and PD and,

and we worked a lot

with our senior center,

we with the senior citizens through

the vaccine stuff. But, you know,

as far as specific examples, you

know, I'm not sure just every day,

I mean every day situations

we, you know, like our,

our D P W handles the

hydrants, so, you know, does,

does the hydrants and we obviously,

we use the hydrants all the time. So,

you know, just being able to pick

up the phone and say, Hey, listen,

our guys are gonna be out

training, you know, at, you know,

on whatever avenue Richards Avenue

today, you know, just, just so you know,

we're gonna be flowing a few thousand

gallons of water, whatever, you know,

that that kind of stuff didn't exist

before. We would just go do it.

They'd find out about it, they'd

get upset and we'd be like, Hey,

we gotta do it. And now it's, you know,

like, pick up the phone and talk to 'em.

Just, you know, pick up and do it.

And, you know, and obviously, you know,

and our position, we, we, we deal with

finance all the time in HR and you know,

I I, I had no problem picking up the

phone and, and calling HR and saying,

listen, this is my situation. I need

some help with this person, you know,

help me out. And, and they're more

than happy to help out. So I mean, I'm,

I'm not afraid to pick up the phone

and say, you know, I need this and,

you know, anything I can do for

you, let me know and I'll, I'll,

I'll bend over backwards to make

sure that I can, can do what I can.

Okay, that's great. Thank

you. And Todd, just a,

a follow up to be clear with the

board, I know you're traveling,

when do you get back and when could you

start? So the board understands that.

So we're, we're due to come

back after the, what's the day?

The 12th of the 13th, I think

of August. So, you know,

anytime after that would be, would be

best. I mean, we, I could move that up, I,

if we had to, but you know, we,

we could discuss that, I think,

you know. Okay. If, if it came to it.

Sounds good.

Okay.

And that's of August,

by the way, so, yeah.

Yeah.

So Brian, it that's, that's it,

right? We're gonna move on now and,

and with great thanks to you, Todd,

for joining us and

particularly given the, the,

the hour of the day or the hour

of the night there in, in Glasgow.

But thank you very much.

We really appreciate it.

It's been great to hear

what you have to say.

You're welcome. Very nice

meeting you all. Thank you.

And Todd, Dave or I will be back

in touch with you as we go forward,

so thank you. Obviously you're

free to log off at this time.

Okay, thank you. Good night folks. Bye.

Good night.

Okay, through the chair.

Does the board wanna take a quick break

or go right into the next candidate

who is, is here?

Yeah, I think we wanna go

right into the next candidate.

Okay. So I believe Dave Sore has

joined us. Dave, if you can hear me,

why don't you turn on your video and

there we go. Good evening, how are you?

Good, how you doing Brian? Good, good.

So let me introduce you

to the board once again.

Dave has gone through a

similar process as Todd.

He's had two interviews for

the purpose of screening.

One with just Dave Houghton and myself,

and then a second both with the,

the chief and Megan and my team.

So he's been vetted through that

process and once again survive,

Dave comes to you with 22 years

experience as a mass fire chief,

which can, can be important for a

law and regulation. I know there,

there were some things that

Todd had mentioned on that,

but 14 years in Weston as

chief and eight years in sto.

And I'm sure we're gonna hear from Dave

much more about his career as we get

going. So I'll turn it to

the chair to start the,

the questions and then Megan and I

will pick up the questions after that.

Thank you very much and and

welcome Dave and thanks so much for

joining us on this hot night. Thank you.

So just a reminder to the board that

we're gonna be asking the same questions

that we asked before. So I

will just go back to asking

about your management style

and how you would approach

the need for change with the, within

the Wellesley Fire department.

Obviously any transition brings about

a lot of change and so just interested

in how, how you would approach that.

Yeah, it does bring a lot when you have

to do, when you have to make changes,

I would probably take some, a

little bit of time when they're,

I've worked with people, I

don't know them personally,

but I've worked with Wellesley fire

department, I kinda, I know the in,

I know how they operate. So I

would go in, do some evaluations,

see, see what needs to

be changed. I know a few,

few things were discussed

in the early interviews.

Then you bring the changes to your command

staff and to all the members of the

department. I think I would try to

meet with, with each one of the groups,

explain to them what the changes

are, why we're making the changes.

I would take their feedback cuz again, I

don't know everything there is to know,

but at the end of the day it is

my decision as to why, you know,

we're going to make,

make the changes that we're

going to make and then then you,

you implement the changes

and you try to do it

as smoothly as you can. I

mean, some things are gonna go,

I've had some things that went

very well. They, the, you know,

the transition was great. It wasn't an

issue. There were other things that,

you know, were an issue that we had

to work out the bugs and, you know,

I had to work with the union on some

stuff and just continue to keep an open

line and communication and be transparent

as to what we're doing and why

we're doing it.

Great, thank you.

So if you had to name your

greatest strength, what,

what would you say it it is in

terms of your management style?

I think my ability to get

people to, to do what,

what needs to be done. I like to,

I have a really positive attitude.

I lead by example. I'm

compassionate. You know,

I, I I had lunch with the guys I

know and, and the females. I would,

you know, I would listen to everybody,

you know, get to know them as a person,

get to, I built my trust with

them so that they would, you know,

they felt comfortable talking

to me about things. And I,

I think, aside from my fireground

side of it, which I think is probably,

I'm pretty, I'm very strong on

the fire, on the fire side of it,

the management in the station is,

is my ability to read

and work with people and

get people all on the same page

and going in the same direction.

Thank you very much.

So I am just looking to see who's

next. Beth, I believe you were.

Next. I am so welcome. Thank you.

Thank you for joining us tonight.

My question is, you've

been in Weston a long time,

so when you think about the

differences between your most recent

position in Weston and the position of

interim chief in the town of Wellesley,

how would you characterize

the key differences.

There? Really, honestly, there's

not a whole lot of differences.

Wellesley and Weston are very much alike.

Wellesley is a little bit bigger cuz

you're running, there's a 59, you know,

person. We were 30, 36.

We both had two stations run wise.

We're a little bit busier than we were,

but the cha the characteristics

of the town and the job

for the most part is pretty much

the same. You know, it's the same.

You have to get in, you have

to get to know everybody.

You've gotta get to what makes people

tick, what you know, what what they do,

what they like to do and

things like that. But as,

as far as Wellesley and Weston there,

there's really not a big

difference between the two.

And as a follow-up,

can you tell us what is it

about this opportunity that has

drawn you to apply and

why are you interested?

I retired last July with the

intention of, I had been there,

you know, for 22 years as the chief,

14 years in Weston. And there were,

there were a lot of problems in Westin

when I first got there, but we, we,

it was in a really good

place. I had mentored,

we hired a deputy and I had brought him

along to the point that he was ready

take my position and we had

brought somebody up that would,

that would be able to fall into the

deputy's position. We had people,

when I first went there, we had nobody,

people were not taking the exam

to get promoted. When I left,

I think there was, I

forget the exact number,

but if there was 15

people that were eligible,

like 12 of the people that

were eligible took the exam.

So there was,

things were in a really good

place and I did wanna touch base

with, you know, a company like Brian's

and do either interim Chiefing,

whether it is in Massachusetts or

not, but I, I just took a year,

I had a couple surgeries on my shoulders.

I had those fixed and this

opportunity presented itself and

it's a good opportunity. I know,

I don't know all the, you know,

the whole town of Wellesley,

I can, you know, I,

I don't know all the streets in it,

but I'm pretty familiar with the town.

I'm very familiar with the area,

I'm very familiar with how things in this

area work, all the chiefs in the area.

So it just seemed like

it was a really good fit.

Great. Well thank you

for your consideration.

Thank you.

And Mara, thank you Lisa.

And thank you so much David

for coming to this evening.

Make yourself available for the board

to meet you. Thank you for having me.

So I'm wondering about

communication and how,

how do you communicate with,

involve and motivate your staff

and preserve the chain of command

or the command structure within

your organization, and maybe a,

a specific example of a challenge that

you faced with your staff and how you

used your communication skills

to resolve that challenge and,

and at the end of the day,

have a motivated staff,

even though you had to deal

with something difficult.

I, I have an open door policy.

I, I will, you know, let,

people can come in, I can talk to people.

They have a problem. They can bring,

they can bring the problem to me. Depend,

you know, depending on what it is,

if it's a, if it's a small group problem,

they have to follow the chain of

command, and I make sure that,

that I comu i will com I would

communicate that as soon as I got there,

that there was a command structure.

You'd have to follow the,

the chain of command. And then for, you

know, for other, you know, other issues.

Like I said, I had an open

door policy. I did, I had to,

I did have to work with my command

staff because as we all know,

sometimes I would put a memo out

to change something, you know,

and my shift captain would say he,

he would be asked by his group, well,

we're doing this because the

chief said, so. I'm like, well,

that's not the answer that

you have to give them.

You have to sell them on what you are

doing. And they have to buy into it.

And they have to be able to communicate

down to the subordinates why we're doing

it that they've bought in. And that,

that way you can start to get

buy in all the way down the line.

So it starts at the top with me being

able to talk to my direct supervisors who

are going to go to the subordinates

and explain to them what we're doing,

why we're doing it, and how the

message needs to be put out there.

You can't just come out and say, well,

the chief wants it done. Okay, well,

why does the chief want it done? Well,

just because he wants it done there,

there has, they're gonna ask questions.

There has to be a reason why.

So thank you. So, just as a

follow up can, do you have,

can you share a specific example

of a time when that didn't

go so well and you had to

work with maybe a particular member of

your staff who was disappointed in the

way the decision that you made and how

you work them through that so that at the

end of the day,

they were motivated and ready to go back

to work as a firefighter and do the job

they needed to?

I think one of the bigger ones when I

first got there was the radio system.

I was kind of told that they

had a radio system that was very

dysfunctional. I had

to make it work. So we,

we began the process with a vendor.

We started working on things and I I,

there was a few people there that were,

They knew radios, but they

weren't like radio technicians.

So any change that I was making,

there were always bumps along the way

and things that had to be worked out.

We went from, we took the

bells out of the station,

we went to a different alerting system,

you know, thing, things like that.

We took out the street boxes that, that

did not go over big with the members,

but I had to explain to them that,

you know, this system is here.

It's costing the town X

amount of money. It is very,

very rarely used today was

cell phones and, you know,

the modern technology.

And I explained how the new system

was gonna work as they were a little

It was a mesh system that had repeater

systems where you could get around the

town and, and it took time and it,

it just took continuing to work

on the process and making sure

that it got done and it was done

properly. And it, it worked.

It, but it took, it took

time. And, you know,

I don't take those things personal.

It's, it's part of my job. I have,

they have to be done. So,

and we sold it and it worked

and it worked out. Good.

All right. Thank you so much, Tom.

Thank you. And thank you for

joining us tonight, David.

As others have said before,

me and I, you know, I,

I appreciate the length of service that

you've had in the chief's position.

Certainly the concept of an interim

chief here in Wellesley was not where we

started at the beginning

of this search process,

but I think working closely with mri, it,

it grew out of the interviews and

the process that was underway and

appears to be a good opportunity for

us in terms of trying to understand

and define and correct some of the

issues that we perceive to be ongoing in

the department. As a result,

we anticipate an ongoing relationship

with M R I that is really important

to us in terms of a defined period

of one year that we're trying to

make this work and achieve

very specific end results.

So how would you work with the M R I

team to determine progress on goals

and objectives and support

officer development

so that we arrive at the end of this

with the ability to go back and search

for a permanent chief?

my philosophy on the second part of your

question is that basically everybody

should know everybody else's

job in the fire service. The,

the firefighters should, they should be

trained and they should know what their,

their shift commanders do on a daily

basis. They should be mentoring them,

and I should be mentoring the

people below me so that, you know,

the, that they can get the message

out to the people below that.

I do understand that

there are some candidate,

you have some internal candidates

that were very close in this process,

but weren't quite there yet. And

as I did when I was in Weston,

I would work closely with those people

and get them to where they need to be

so that they can become a chief or

a deputy wherever they want to go.

The MRI team, we could meet this,

we, this was talked about before,

that they would lay out, you know,

some goals and timelines and we would

meet every couple months to go over

whether how the process

was going, how, you know,

whether we were getting meeting the goals,

whether the person or

people that were in this,

these positions were coming up to

speed quick enough or if it was going

to take longer, or did they need to

go down and do ano another avenue. I.

I think too, as a, as a sort

of a follow up comment and,

and question there, there's,

there are not just the goals with regard

to internal candidate development,

but there are also goals in terms

of sort of cultural change and

overall departmental

organization and operation. So I,

I think it's very important that you

anticipate working closely with M R I and

with Megan

in terms of trying to achieve

th that half of the job as well

over the next 12 months.

And I, I just want to ask,

I assume that you're aware of

that and are need for that to

happen as well?

Yes. I mean there's, there are,

there are issues in every department

that you go to. And we had

that pretty much had to change

my first stint as chief,

they really weren't a fire department.

It was, it was a fire department,

but it was the, you know,

just the people that lived in town

and they came and we actually built a,

a fire department and I got the buy-in

from the members that were on the

department. They worked really

closely with me to do that.

When I went to the, when I took on

my second job, there was, you know,

there was some internal issues that were

there that had to be addressed as far

as getting the department up to The,

not this century, but how, how

you need to pass information down.

It,

it was something that the o

the officers couldn't just hold

the information close to their vessel

that no one could take their job.

It had to be passed down

to the firefighters so that

they could do the job when

the officers were out and they'd be ready

to do the job when the officers were

out. I do, I guess I

understand that there was some,

there's some schooling, you know,

there's issues with some, you know,

going to school and things like that.

That's something I would have to evaluate

as to who has what for education.

But they all should be at

a, at a level, you know,

they should all have their fire officer

officer classes and things like that.

So those,

those are things that have to work with

that I have to look into and see who

has, who has what. I'd have to talk

to Megan and see as far as money,

what we have to spend to

send these people to school,

whether we need to cover them,

not cover them, things like that.

Thank you.

Well ahead. Hi,

thank you for coming and sharing

your time with us tonight.

So I wanted to ask a question, just taking

a deeper dive into your 90 day plan.

What are two specific projects that

you would collaborate with the staff to

bring positive change to the

Wellesley, the fire department?

If you can give us your top

two items, that would be great.

I think first I would like to just

go in and meet with all of my,

all the senior staff, all the, you know,

the, the deputies and the lieutenants,

the union president.

I'd like to meet with all of the

groups to get everybody to kind of,

to just tell them what my vision is,

what I'm there for, what I'm going to do,

get what they are looking to get out

of a fire department because they're,

at the end of the day, they're

the ones that they work there,

you want to keep them there, you

want them, you want them to be happy.

So you've gotta, you've gotta create a

work environment that they want to go to.

So I need to know what that is that they,

that they are looking for and what they

feel is lacking in, in the department.

And then, you know, work on,

work on that short term

and then maybe make on,

take on a little longer of a

goal period and set that up

so that there is, there's,

there's goals and objectives set for the

future for the next person who's gonna

come in after, after the, the year

for them to follow and finish.

And, and it also,

it gives the firefighters and the

officers something to strive for.

Thank you. And just as a, a follow

up, you did talk a little bit in our,

and our last question about is there

enough budget for training and education,

things like that.

Could you talk to us a little bit

more about your experiencing with Bud,

your experience in budgeting

with the department and how,

how you work with other

departments in, in doing that?

Yeah, I've done budget for 22 years.

I've developed basically with, you

know, with the help of the town,

with the town manager, the town, the,

the treasurer and the accountant. We

would develop a budget. I would base,

you know, my budget,

there's a lot of variables in this job

that you don't know about. You know,

you can't predict how many

buyers you're gonna have.

We had callback on our department,

so members would come back.

So I can't, you can't predict that.

So I had to go in and go back over and

try to get, you know, a pretty good,

a pretty good idea of how many times

during the la over the last five years

before I came, did this happen,

what they were spending on training,

who was getting the training. I looked

at what needed to be done for training,

broke it down into smaller, manageable

pieces so I wasn't, you know,

throwing everything at

the town at one time,

but trying to accomplish the same thing.

See what we could do in-house as opposed

to having to go out and either hire

someone or bring someone

from the outside in.

We looked at, we set up,

we had a 10 year capital

replacement plan set with the town

as far as, you know, all, all

our pieces, our fire apparatus,

our turnout gear was replaced every five

years so that they had a set every so

that every 10 years when it,

it goes through its cycle,

it can be disposed of properly.

We set up a plan for our,

the jaws of white, basically all large

capital expend expenditures. We had,

we had figured out for the

future as to what was what,

when we were gonna need to replace

them, how much it was gonna be.

And we tried to spread things out so it

wasn't all happening at the same time.

Okay, thank you. I really appreciate that.

Yep, go ahead Megan. You're

gonna go ahead. Yes. Yep.

So thanks David. Good to see you

again. Good to see you. And you,

you touched on this a little bit already,

but could you maybe go through a

few examples of things that you,

you've done in the past successfully

or things that you potentially would

implement here in,

in the interim position for

internal mentorship and you know,

how you would make that a success?

Yeah, it's, it would start obviously

with me and you have to get

the, you know, the officers that

are, that are directly below you,

you would need to work with them to make

sure that the message that I'm sending

out gets sent down to them.

The training that we're doing gets

sent down to them because as I,

as I said before, they,

everybody there should know what

everybody else's job is. And yeah,

you, you do need to go to school

to, you know, to, to advance.

But you should have a pretty

good idea of how and what I do.

The firefighters should know what the

deputies do and that starts with me and

getting out and talking to everybody and

setting them up for the future and say,

look, if you want to have a future

here and you want to succeed,

this is what you have to do. You have

to do steps A, B, C, and D to do that.

I know, I'd have to look at, you know,

there's some people probably that are

getting ready for retirement that may not,

they may not, you know, need

as much, not need, but they,

but the schooling piece of it,

it might be a little bit later

in their career for that.

So I'd have to find where,

you know, who needs what and,

and explain and work with them

as to why they, why they need it.

And set up a plan. And you know, this is,

you need your associates degree for this,

you need to have a bachelor's if you

want to go on to try to be a deputy chief

or a chief and, and make all and, and

make all those things available to them.

Not, you know, not bringing the

college to them, but, you know,

giving them the opportunity to go to

the schools, to go to the fire academy,

to go to the National Fire

Academy and things like that.

Great, thank you. As Interim

chief, even though it's,

it's for one year and, you know,

how do you communicate with the residents

and become involved in the community?

And, and so that could be, I'll say,

think about it sort of two ways.

What have you done in the

past and then, you know,

what are some strategies you could do.

This upcoming year?

I think we tried to be very

big in the community, you know,

have a big presence in the

community because people,

they don't see you and if they don't see

you, they don't know what you do there.

So any town event that we could be at,

somebody from the fire department was

there, whether we ho we had an open house,

which was a huge success.

Every year we ran an open house and people

would come and they'd get to see the

trucks. They did ice an ice cream, social.

And I would actually go out and scoop

ice cream and my deputy would go out and

we would, you know, we

would do that. And any,

we were involved with the COA heavily,

I'd meet with them on a monthly basis.

We would go over, you know,

the people in the town that

were in need in a crisis.

And then I had a group of firefighters

who actually went down and they,

they taught classes for the coa. They

taught cpr, they taught them fire safety.

We were in the,

the schools working with them real as

close as we could be with them. You know,

they're, they're,

it's harder with the schools because

they're so mandated on time and what they

can do. But we worked

around it and when, but I,

I think any opportunity that you can

put yourself out there in front of the

people in the process, they

can put a face, face and a,

and a name to what you do, see

what you do, ask you questions,

find out what exactly the life of

a firefighter or a fire chief is.

It's only positive for the, for the,

both the department and for the town.

Great. Thank you Brian.

Thank you Dave. What,

what are three principles that

would guide you as interim chief and

Wellesley both looking at your

career and life experience,

and then why do these stand out?

I would say honesty, integrity,

and consistency. And there are

three things. If you're not,

if you're not honest and

transparent with your people,

you're never going to

get buy-in from them.

If you're not consistent with your people,

you're never gonna get buy-in and

integrity and honesty I guess go together.

But they, they're gonna look at me as,

as their leader as to what I do. And

that's the cue that they're gonna take.

And that's how they're gonna,

that's how they're gonna act.

If I come into work and

I'm dressed, you know, I,

my shoes are untied and I'm like, or

anything like that, and they, if they,

they see things like that,

they think it's okay to do,

that's what they're gonna

do. So I need to start,

I need to set the example of what I want

them to do and how I want them to act.

And the only way I'm gonna do

that is to have their trust.

Okay, thank you. And sort of the

next question of the couple of parts.

First of all,

how do you approach diversity and

recruitment of new firefighters

considering the current labor.

Market? It's, it's a

challenge for everybody.

Diversity we had, at one point we had

three females firefighters working.

One is a lieutenant one, one had to

leave cuz she was a medic and we aren't,

we aren't medic. So she

left for that. It, it,

it's really hard. But I, we,

I was more fortunate I think where I was

than it is in Wellesley because we had

a small call department.

So through word of mouth,

through the younger me, through

members on the department,

they would get people in there.

I had people that worked for the me

for the fire academy. So there just,

we had a big network. So we, we gotten

a lot of people that applied. We,

we made sure that their dedication,

that we made them go

through firefighter one,

two before we actually appointed them.

And if they were dedicated enough

to spend the four months to do that,

then that showed me that

they have that, that they,

that they've got a desire to be there.

And then we would bring 'em in and

they would do ride time with us.

So we got to see them, see whether

they were a fit in the station.

Cause both you and I know 75 to

80% of the time is you're in the

fire station and you can teach

someone to be a fire firefighter,

but you cannot teach them to be a person.

And if they don't get along

and work well with others,

then it, it's gonna be, it's

not gonna be a good match. So,

so I, I was very fortunate in that. And

I know Wellesley runs their own exam,

so I would have to dive into the exam and

get into people's backgrounds a little

bit and see who's done

what, you know, who, who's,

who's kind of stood out,

who's taken that step,

who's gone out and got their emt,

who's looked or tried to get in some

places to get on a department where they

could get sponsored for

firefighter one, two,

because that's just another notch in

your belt to get hired. To get hired in,

in the department.

Okay, thank you. And sort of a

follow up to that, Wellesley,

as most departments has

a lot of younger members,

sort of, these folks need

to be brought forward.

How do you prepare these folks for the

change that's really inevitable in the

American fire service?

Try to explain, you know, talk

to and explain to them what the,

the fire service is, what

it is, what it has evolved.

It's not the same job as it was

when you and I first started it.

You're not going to fires every day

anymore. I mean, most of our stuff is,

is medical related and is,

I can't think of the

word, but it's, you know,

it's that we're there to help

the, whatever their problem is,

we're there to help them. If, if

they call the fire department,

the people in the town of Wellsley,

it may not be an emergency to us,

but it is to them. So everything, so

everybody gets treated with respect.

Everyone gets treated the same way.

And so that needs to be explained to

the fire, to the young firefighters,

what they're actually

getting themselves into,

what the future is going

to be of the fire service.

And it needs to start with

the officers on the way down.

When I first started it was completely

different. The junior firefighter,

you got the coffee, you

cleaned the bathrooms, you

did this, you did, you know,

all these things. It's a

different environment today.

And these things have to be, you

have, they have to be spread out.

The junior firefighter can't be dumped

everything on because they're gonna

leave.

They're gonna feel like they're being

that it's just not gonna be fun for them

and they're gonna want to go someplace

that isn't, that is fun. So you have to,

you have to change,

basically you have to change the culture

of a fire department and get them to

understand that this is,

this is how things are today.

And you need to treat these people with

the respect you need to guide them,

you need to show them the way you need

to show them what they need to do.

There are very few fires today, so any

kind of experience that you can get, any,

you know,

from a senior member who's been there

and can talk about it with these young

people and get them to

understand, you know, what,

what they need to do on calls, what they

need to do on certain medical calls.

Anything that you can do to

get them to want to come to

work is, is, and I'm not saying

anything. I mean there's,

there's obviously there's money, there's,

there's a whole lot of different,

I had people leaving, you

know, for medic, you know,

to go to Cambridge for

money and things like that.

But our turnover rate was pretty good

because we made it a really good place for

people to want to come

to work. And that's what,

that's what I strive for.

Okay. So for the last question,

I'll turn it over to Megan

and then we'll close out.

So the last question is, although

you'll be the interim chief for a year,

how would you collaborate with the

wealthy departments or during your

tenure? Tenure and set an example

of relationships in the future?

With the town departments or.

Yeah, with the town departments.

We tried very, we,

we had really good relationship with the

town departments in the town I was in

because you know, the police department,

basically our jobs are the same.

I mean, we, we have a hose,

they have a gun, but we're,

we're there for the same thing. We're,

we're there to take care of whatever

needs that the people have within the

towns. 90% of the calls that the police

go on or we go on, we're together.

So you have to get along

with them. And we used to at,

we used to have the, you know, the

police come up and they'd have dinner,

with the members in the station just

because the more that you know about them,

the more that they know

about you and what you do,

the better off you're gonna

be. Our D P W department,

we relied on them for

everything in the wintertime,

the roads to make sure

that, you know, they,

everything was open that we could

get to where we, we had to get to.

They were really good as far as if we

needed some, Hey, we're going here,

can you have, you know,

the truck that was doing that particular

part of town would make sure that we

could get there if ahy, they

took care of the hydrants.

So we worked with them in the wintertime.

We went out and shoveled the hydrants

and they would go out with their machine

and we worked together

to make sure that they,

they all get cleared within

a timely manner. We would,

we're on the M W R A, which you

are as well. So you have to,

at the end of the year, turn in how much

water you use and what you used it for.

So if we,

we had a spot up in one of the cemeteries

that was just kind of off in the back.

It had a hydrant, it was a

great place for us to train.

We always let them know so that,

so obviously if there was

something going on in the cemetery,

we weren't gonna interrupt them.

They know that we were up there.

They know that we're using the

water and we could keep track of it.

So it made his life a lot easier at the

end of the year as to where that went.

Schools, you know, we worked

with them as far as, you know,

on the Asher training

and things like that.

And we tried to work around

them as much with fire safety,

especially on the younger kids. You know,

the older kids, it's a little harder.

But you know, we, we worked

with, so the relationship,

we're all there for the same thing. We're

all there for the people in Wellesley.

At the end of the day, it, that's what,

we're there for it for different reasons,

but we all have to work together

to make sure that that works.

And as far as departments go,

I mean I have a really good relationship

with Metro Fire through all the chiefs.

I've known them for the last 14 years.

We built some really good running

assignments with the cities.

We're very fortunate that Wal Dam and

Newton are right there. Cuz Weston is,

Weston was small. If we had a

fire, you know, we were running,

we had six, sometimes seven

guys go into it. We'd have to,

we'd rely heavily on them and at

the end, by the time, you know,

they would send and do anything

that we needed him to do.

They'd send us whatever we needed.

Newton was the same way I could pick

up the phone and call the Boston

commissioner cuz I'm, I added something

that I did not know about. And,

and he, you know, he'd answer

the question. So there's,

I I have a lot of those relationships

already built outside of the department.

I'd have to work, you know,

obviously in and meet with all the

department heads and see what their

expectations of us are and what

I'd be looking for outta them.

But I never have had a problem

with any department head.

I think if you went back and if

you asked my former employees,

I think you'd find the same thing from

them that I was pretty easy to work with.

And I got along with pretty

much everybody in the town, so.

Great, thank you.

Hope that, I hope that

answered your question.

It does, thank you.

And Dave, just to be

consistent as we close out,

talk to the board about your

timeline and availability.

The only I have, I mean,

the only thing I have is two days coming

up in two weeks that I'm going up to

Winni Psaki. Other than

that, I'm, you know, I,

I have like some, you know,

follow up doctor appointments

on my shoulder and things,

but other than that, I,

I can start whenever.

Okay, sounds good.

So what we'll do is Dave Houghton

or I will follow up with you

following this interview and I think

that concludes it for the board

tonight. So you can go ahead and

log off and we'll be in touch.

All right, well thank you very much.

Thank you everybody for your time.

Thank you very much for coming.

Okay,

so we are moving on to a discussion of

the candidates and hopefully a vote.

I I will just say, I,

I think these are two really strong

candidates and Brian and Megan and

Chief,

I really appreciate all the work that

you did to bring them to us because I,

this is a, a tough choice.

We've got two really obviously

very capable and experienced

people who,

who had a lot of great

answers to our questions.

So I'll just maybe ask if Brian,

you wanna say anything or Jack,

Megan and then open up to

comments from the board.

So it was our goal to give

the board a choice of two

individuals that could do the job. I I

think they both have different strengths.

You have Todd as someone

that hasn't been a chief as

long,

but certainly has some very different

labor route and comes from sort of a

larger organization.

A and then you have Chief Soar

who is a well established,

well-respected Massachusetts

chief who offers a lot in a sort

of a different way. So I think

from Dave Houghton and myself,

they're both very capable.

We really look at it as it's a

question of fit with the board

and on a daily basis fit with

Megan and the the chief. And,

and I really think that they

need to weigh in on that fit set.

I mean, I'm happy to weigh in

that we, I'll speak for myself.

I thought we could definitely work with

either candidate. I thought they both

were just as, as candid and

terrific in their responses with the

chief and I as they were tonight publicly.

I think they, we couldn't have

asked for better candidates.

We totally lucked out

that they're, you know,

willing to come back for a stint

of service after many years of

fire service. So I I I don't

necessarily have a preference.

I am very comfortable

with either candidate.

I think either one would be

serve the town very well that

I think in, they've both been very

collaborative in speaking to other

folks regarding them. It,

so we've had very positive reviews. Jack,

I don't know if you wanna add to that.

No, I, I, I concur with you, me, Megan.

I think the board has a tough decision

because I think they're both very

qualified. They're both,

they're different and I

think their approaches might

be a little bit different,

but at the end of the day, I, I think

either one could get the job done and,

and I could work with either one.

So I, I guess I'll just open with my,

my inclination and

grateful to hear from

others about their thoughts.

But I do think I given

the, as as Brian put it, the,

the distinctions between

the two candidates.

I do wonder if a fresh,

the fresh approach that the

candidate from New Hampshire brings.

It would be a really useful, I mean we're,

we're gonna be undergoing

a transition here.

And I think my sense,

my, I don't know, my,

I guess just gut instinct was

that he would bring a lot of fresh

ideas and I think one of the things

that we could really benefit from is,

is a lot of experience with a

different way of doing things.

Not that we necessarily

wanna do it that way,

but that that person would

bring kind of a different,

a different take.

And I think Chief Soar would also,

obviously has worked in a number

of different departments, but I,

I'm guessing his experience has

been by his own description,

has been much closer to

the Wellesley experience.

And I feel like what we

could really use right now is

some more out of the box thinking.

Not that Chief Sawer wouldn't

be capable of doing that,

but just by, by

just from having worked in a different

state and a different environment,

there might be some really fresh ideas

that that would be useful for our

department to have and could really help

create a a, a whole new

culture. So I I that's,

I'm sort of stumbling around here

because it really is a very tough

call, but I i, that,

that's sort of what

where my gut landed me.

Anyone else?

Beth?

So I agree that both are

very interesting candidates,

so thank you Brian and your

group. I think I netted out,

not surprisingly, probably

in a different place.

So I look at our most important job as

providing service to the community.

And I think Mr.

Soar is more familiar with

our type of community.

And what struck me is

his confidence that yes,

he's a collaborative leader, but at

the end of the day he makes decisions,

he gets buy-in and he

leads the department at all

levels through those choices

and he holds the line.

And I think that is, for me,

very important in a chief.

I want someone who, at the end of the day,

the buck stops with them and they're

going to own the decisions and they're not

afraid of change.

So it sounded to me like

he has been on our journey

of stepping into a department where

the leadership isn't quite there

yet,

but that there was a pathway

to get the members trained

and give them the experience

and that exposure.

And so for me that that

experience doing that was

very, very compelling.

And on the flip side,

I think there's too

many differences for me,

although I, I was very

impressed by Mr. Jermaine.

He's from a different state,

he's from a city and

he's a relatively young

y not young age wise, but less,

less exposed to all the challenges

that being a chief and holding

the line have because he

just did it for less time.

And I feel like what we should be

bringing to the community is that

absolute surety that

the chief has the

experience to lead through

decisions and lead

through change. And so I,

I feel more inclined toward Mr.

Soer because I feel like he

comes with that full package of

what we need.

Tom.

You know, I,

it was interesting to hear

both of your comments just now,

Lisa, I agree with a lot of what you said,

but what I found myself wondering

is whether you were describing

a year from now the new chief

and whether what we need over the

next year is to right the ship

and to get the essential

department organized and

squared away in a way that

it is receptive and capable

of moving forward with new ideas

and outta the box thinking.

And that led me to think that,

that David might be a better

fit because the sheer command

presence, I, I think that's one of

the big advantages that he had to me

he understood how he needed to arrive

at a decision that was right for a

particular situation, but I think

he has a command presence that,

that Todd doesn't lack but

didn't have to the same

degree simply because of the number

of years that they've been chief.

And I I,

I wonder if the number of

years in services a chief I,

I'm thinking that that does

matter in this situation.

And, and I'm, I'm also think wondering

and, and this may be something

that Brian would be able to comment on if,

if there's a benefit to someone

who's well known and respected

within our fire community here,

because inevitably what you see

is the union and the individual

firefighters have connections

within that network and can go back

out and say, should I listen to this

guy or not? Is this guy a good guy?

Is he somebody who's got

the ability to do this job?

And they're gonna get

that kind of feedback.

As I went through the interview with,

as we went through the

interview with Todd,

and I mean this as a compliment to him,

I wondered whether he really wants

to be through with active duty

or whether he might end

up looking for a return

perhaps in another state.

I'm not at all familiar with the

New Hampshire retirement laws,

but the feeling I had is that he's

not through with with that job.

And I think David is through

with being an active chief,

but would bring a presence,

a basis of knowledge

and a and a skillset to

the work as interim chief. That

that's what attracted me to him.

And Mar right,

I wanna jump in before Colette so

that Colette ends up having to be the

tiebreaker here. No, cause I,

I actually agree with

everything everyone said.

I I thought they were both

great but both different.

I guess what I'm,

I'm struggling with is what do we

need for an interim versus the next

chief? And

I did see feel that,

that David would,

would be a steady hand and bring so much

to the community while he's here and,

and if that's what we're looking

for is the steady hand to,

to just see us through the next

year, I think he'd be amazing.

And then I thought that

the other candidate,

I felt like he would come in and be,

would see things differently, which

is what you were saying, Lisa.

And it is a different way of

looking at it and it'd be different.

And if that's what we're

looking for in the interim,

he's the one to bring that

difference, I think. And so I,

I see them both doing

something great for Wellesley.

It's really what, what

do we want in this year?

And I think one thing

that really struck me

about about,

sorry about God, right? Yes.

So I lose my names, is that

he definitely saw that his main role was

the mentorship and I really heard that

in what he said.

And so I saw him seeing this as a job.

He was gonna come in and

help and help bring the,

the next generation along and get us

really ready for a new transition a year

from now, which I really appreciated.

I'm certain that David

could do that as well.

So I I really think that

they're both great and it's,

I guess I would slightly

lean towards Todd,

but I could be convinced the other way.

I do think they're both great

and it's just different.

It's, are we looking for a

shift or a steadying is what,

how I see this.

Oh boy. So I did,

this is a really, really difficult choice.

This is probably one of the most difficult

candidate selection processes I've

ever been through because

these are two amazing choices.

You're being asked to choose almost it

feels like between two good friends or

you know, someone, both people

that would be amazing for the job.

So that's, that's on the,

on the plus side for us.

I think we're gonna commit to

this in a very, very good place.

When I started on paper and I I,

I read all We have, I was really,

the,

the depth and breadth of the chief

experience was really important to me.

So I really was predisposed to Mr.

Sore when I read on paper.

And then of course the interviews they

both interviewed amazingly and I was

actually really struck by,

although they're different

people in different approaches,

they gave a lot of very similar responses.

They understand exactly what it is

we need to do, where we need to go,

what the steps are to get there. So I

think we're gonna have the same approach.

I'm so torn on this one because I

completely agree with everything everyone

said. One thing that kind of

speaks to me a little bit is

both our internal candidates

and our new firefighters

are young.

And so having someone closer

to them might in their

sort of arc of life would, might,

might help with the mentorship process.

Whereas the, the gravity,

the command presence,

the this sort of agent experience that

David brings is unquestionably there and

is is very distinctive and

very comforting for us.

We would know we'd be, we'd

be in a very steady hand.

It's hard because he also brings a

knowledge of the area and the culture

and the, the neighboring towns and the

people he'd been working with. But I,

I do think I lean towards

Mr. Soar in the end.

I would be happy to go with either,

but I think that's where I'm leaning

just from a perspective of a little

bit of an outside perspective

because we are,

we are seeking that as part of the

mentorship for not only the leadership,

but it will also help with the

younger generation. So that's,

that's where I'm leaning.

Did you Mr. Jermaine,

sorry, Mr. Jermaine. Sorry,

did I under duress in the moment probably

said the wrong word, but Mr. Jermaine,

I think, yeah, that's what I'm waiting.

Yeah, I i it's, it's hard not to,

for every argument for one, there's

a counter argument for the other.

It's hard not to, not

to be doing that in in,

at least I'm finding that in my

head. But I, I will just say I think,

I do think to your point Ann Mara,

about sort of what is the

goal here for this year. I,

I think it's more than a steady

hand I would say. I mean I,

I think we do have some

changes that that need to

happen and,

and this mentorship is

obviously a major goal.

So I I would, that's,

that's sort of what the way I'm thinking

about what's going to happen over the

course of this year. I'm sorry

Tom, did you have your hand up?

Well, I, I did because it, it,

I think it's important that people,

that there have been several people

who have used the term steady hand and

I, I'm, I'm trying to sort of share

my thinking so that people can,

can not just tell me whether they

disagree, but help me sort of refine it.

And to me there's an attraction to

a steady hand in terms of what I

think has to happen over the next

year in that I don't think we

have a problem fighting fires. I I,

my understanding is that our

personnel are very good in the job

of fighting fires. And

so I wonder if that,

if that steady hand, if

it's in the right person,

means that there is a consistency within

which they are able to identify the

kinds of problems we have and fix

them and that that's where the command

presence comes from. I'm,

I'm a bit concerned that

Todd as a person who

is younger but who has

less command experience

won't have that same

advantage. And I'm not sure,

while he has some different thinking

that he has a basis of knowledge with

which to move forward in effective

ways with that new thinking,

I, I think that's,

that's an advantage too.

So my comments would be very different

if we were interviewing these two as

a permanent chief, but I

just wonder if over the,

over the next year there isn't

a benefit to that significant

experience that David brings to the table.

Beth? So yeah,

and thank you first for to everyone for

their comments cuz I do think this is

both very important and also

a very difficult choice.

I think the other reason

I am inclined toward Mr.

Soar is that a year is not a lot of time.

And when I think about the,

the number of things that

when you take on a new role,

learning the community

learning, the state learning,

the department and mentoring

seemed to me to be,

if we can knock a few o off,

we're giving our interim a higher amount

of time to focus on the things that

set us up long term. So

if the community is known,

the network in the state is known,

the the kind of the area is understood,

then for me it allows more,

more opportunity to focus on the

department as opposed to focus

on everything else.

That is it doing all the

other parts of being a

chief will take less, less time.

So that's part of what I looked at

in terms of prioritizing because

if we're bringing someone in that maybe

doesn't have all those boxes checked,

but they're here for a longer time,

I think that's a different choice.

But we're looking for

a year. And so for me,

I, I would like

some of the skillsets or some

of the inherent knowledge

to be in place when the

person starts. And I,

Brian maybe can comment on that, but that,

that's one of the things in addition to

what Tom so eloquently put as command

presence I think was also

going on in my choice. Set.

Any other comments?

Yeah, I just, I just wanted to

sort of, I I, I completely, I hear,

you know, both Tom and

Beth's comments here,

but I,

but I just want to note that the

department itself knows the community,

knows the town, knows the

networks. We have that.

And so I'm just trying to

balance between, you know,

what we have and what we're looking to

add to this department in the next 12

months.

Yeah, I think that's a really

good point. I I think that's,

that's well said. I, I feel like

those are the things that we have,

we have a strong department

that can, you know,

preserve safety and, and do its

job very effectively in the town.

I'm thinking more in terms of what

we don't have and that we need. And

to me that's sort of

the fresh approach and

a perspective from other departments and,

and how they do things differently

in other places that could really

help us leap ahead over

the course of this year

in terms of becoming a more

state-of-the-art department,

which is kind of where I

would like to see us go.

So that's what's persuasive to me about

sort of the outside candidate

and Mara.

so now everything everyone says I

agree with and it shifts my perspective

and then I shift back. So

I completely agree with Colette saying

that we have so much already in our

department,

but that also made me think about

the fact that this person's gonna

walk in and not have a lot

of time to get things done.

And so I'm thinking about who is

going to be trusted more quickly

and maybe they're familiar

would have a better impact or a more

chance for an impact in this one year

because

he would walk in and already

just because of the familiarity

Weston is right next door

and that command presence and

his years of experience that he

would,

he would walk in maybe having that

respect without having to do much.

He just is right. Whereas, you know,

the other candidate might have to work

harder to earn that respect and that time

that it would take in that department

to get that is time that might get

wasted in this very short year. So

I'm, now I'm shifting because I i

I really think that it is important to

get as much done as possible in this,

in that short period of time. And I

mean obviously we're not, it isn't,

we haven't said it's calendar year,

you know, August 12th to August 12th,

but there is something to be said

about a person that could walk in and

immediately

just walk into being the Wellesley fire

chief even on an interim basis without

really any concerns whatsoever, I don't

think from anyone in the department.

But, you know, I wish I, I'm not that

I've talked to anybody in the department,

but now I'm starting to think that way.

Jack.

Can we ask, I, I don't know

how much Brian can add to this,

but I'm interested in his perspective.

So again, I think,

I feel the board's pain here that

this is a very difficult decision.

We strobe to give you a tough choice and,

and I think between Dave

and I that have done this,

we see some of the same advantages and

disadvantages that you have pointed out,

whether it's familiarity with metro

fire in the network. Ultimately

we're trying to give the department

an opportunity to grow and,

and to sort of grow toward

where the fire service is

going in the future. Either

one is capable of doing that.

I really balance the

outside perspective benefit

with being an established

mass chief as about equal.

So chief I'm gonna sort of defer to,

it's really the board's

difficult decision.

Either one of them could do a great job

and, and that's how we vetted them. And,

and to be honest with you,

Dave and I had some of the same

discussions that you're having,

which one would be better? And

I think we also had it with the,

the chief and Megan as well.

So I know I'm not adding

a lens of clarity here,

but I I think either one is fine for

what you're trying to accomplish.

They may do it in a different way,

but I think the, the department,

as long as the,

the department embraces the

interim chief and the opportunity

to grow has a real springboard forward

here and it can be very positive

as long as it's looked at in that way.

Okay.

Well I I'm not sure.

I'm not sure any, I I, does anyone have

anything they, they really wanna add?

Are we ready to, are people

pretty much talked out?

Ann Mara, you look like you're sort

of on the verge of saying something.

I just, I just wanna

clarify, did, did everybody,

so I I did think their leadership

styles were, were very different,

right? And I just wanna make sure

that I was seeing that properly that,

that Mr. Jermaine is a,

is a little bit more of a,

he used the word Democratic, right?

So it's, I might say collaborative,

although he didn't use that.

He said Democratic where I

really felt like Chief Soar is

very much, he, he is the chief.

So it's a little more of a

top-down approach and I told him,

is that what everybody else picked

up? Cuz it's Yes. Misunderstand that.

Yeah, Collin and did you pick up

that as well? Yeah, yeah. I mean the,

I those were the notes I took. Yeah.

I think that's an excellent point. Ammar,

you, you're looking at Todd,

Mr. Jermaine, chief Jermaine as

maybe his approach and is more

win over people over the course of time

as opposed to Chief Soar who

would come in and

through his presence

kind of lead direct, you know, right away.

I, I I think there's an

advantage of someone who's not,

not, not that they're not

concerned, but somebody who

is more

willing to do it their way instead of you,

you can collaborate to a certain extent.

I'm not sure how much this department,

the fire department needs

that collaboration. I think

both will collaborate,

but there's something to be said for

somebody to come in and say, Hey look,

this is the way it's gonna be and you

don't like it, talk to me about it.

But at the end of the day, that's what

it's gonna be. Not here to make friends.

I I'm I'm here to, you

know, get the job done. I

they're both great

candidates. I like 'em both.

Okay, well, so we lost Dan Mara.

I mean I I I really feel that too,

that they're both great candidates.

I hear a very strong

argument for Chief Sar.

I'd be very comfortable with

him as, as our selection

and I'm happy to go with that.

As would I, Lisa, like

I said at the beginning,

we are in great hands with either of

these choices or just absolutely they're

just different and I'm, I'm,

I'm very comfortable with either choice

and either choice would have my full

support.

Okay. Would.

You like a motion, Lisa?

Well, I'm, I'm feel a little Ann Mara

is on the phone. I just wanna make sure.

I'm, I'm so sorry that was like a little

family emergency, but I'm, I'm back.

I apologize for that.

I was just saying that both Colette

and I were just saying we'd be very

comfortable with the selection

of Chief Soar. So, you know,

I I think we're we're, we've

reached a consensus here.

Yeah, I mean that's

where we're netting out.

I I think they're both great so I would

completely support the board if that's

the direction.

Okay. So yes, I think we need a motion.

Okay. Move to appoint Mr.

David Soar as interim fire chief and

Wellsey subject to a successful contract

negotiation.

And do we put a time start or.

I think it would be contingent upon

the contract and their availability.

Okay, great.

Second.

Aye and Beth.

Aye.

Tom Aye and I vote Aye as well.

Okay. That was a tough one, but Brian,

thank you very much. It was a,

a really fascinating conversation

with both candidates and I

know we're, we're gonna

be in very good hands.

Okay. And we'll follow up and inform both

candidates and take it from there with

Megan. So thank you very much for tonight.

Thank you. Thank.

Lisa. I apologize but I just have to

step out for two more minutes so I,

I know you'll move on,

but I'll be right back.

Okay. All right.

So next item is discuss and

vote the PSI recommendation with

regard to the Wellesley College

Health and Counseling Center.

So thank you.

We have Michelle Mahu from Wellesley

College here along with Justin Mosca,

who is the V H B engineer on the project.

Good to see you again Justin. He, he's

done some ful work over the years,

so the project has been submitted

for a project of significant impact.

I can have Justin give you a brief

overview of the project, but, or Michelle,

but just as a reminder,

so the select board's role in

this is the select board issues,

a recommendation to the

permit granting authority,

the planning board with

regards to traffic,

both signalize and unsign

lines intersections,

as well as sidewalk evaluations

as part of the pedestrian bike and

safety evaluations.

So the board has received

the application. I had a,

initially a draft

recommendation I have sent

given this project largely

does not trigger many of the

components of the PSI

traffic because it's a,

it's actually a reduction

in square footage and we,

we can go through that briefly. I

did have beta engineering just do a,

a brief peer review on this and the,

the board didn't really see

it cuz it, but it was tan,

got back to me just through

an email that, you know, they,

they had no issues with

traffic, no issues with parking,

construction, traffic. They had

a few questions on Sidewalk,

which we can address as part of the

discussion. And, and so with that,

maybe Justin I'll just have you

give, you know, a or Michelle,

whoever would like to proceed

with just a very brief

overview of the project the board has

received the, the full PSI application.

Yep. No, certainly I'll, I'll

keep it high level and just,

just walk you through and orient.

Let me share my screen real quick.

Please comes through.

So thank you for having us again.

Just having listened to the last one,

I need to just point out that I don't

envy your position on having to make that

vote. So hopefully this

one will be easier for you.

So we are hopefully most, most folks

are familiar with Wealthy College,

Route 1 1 35 Central Street is up on

sort of the top of the map that you're

seeing here and Route 16 Washington

Street is kind of on the,

on the southeast border, the of

the college with Lake Waban on the,

to the Southwest.

So everything you see sort of between

that triangle as Wellesley College.

The project that we're

proposing is kind of,

sort of smacked out in the

middle of, of the property.

It's over by the science center and

it's a replacement of Simpson Hall,

which is this building right

here. So it's actually gotten a,

it's attached to Simpson Cottage with it,

which is an older structure and

that Simpson Cottage is staying.

But as I zoom back out, so

you can see the campus again,

you can kind of see how it's how

it's in the middle of the property.

And that's important, you know, we'll

talk about that a little bit later.

But just because we're not making any

changes to connections to the municipal

infrastructure for

College Road, like where,

where you actually access the college,

the project itself, as Megan mentioned,

it's a reduction in square footage.

The existing Simpson Hall that,

that I had circled is a

19,000 square foot structure.

The building that's gonna be going in

is a new health and counseling center,

and that is 11,000 square feet.

So the health services are current or

were currently, that doesn't make sense.

They were in Simpson

Hall previously. They're,

they've been temporarily moved to

the college club to make way for this

demolition. And then the health services

will move back into this facility.

The health services are run by Newton

Wellesley Hospital for the college.

So essentially these are programs

and staff and students that are all

present in the college already.

It's not a growth in at any kind in

student population or staff population.

And we're not impacting any parking

spaces. And it will temporarily,

they'll need to be laid

downs for construction,

but ultimately everything around

the building stays the same.

So we're not creating any parking spaces

or removing any parking spaces as part

of the project. And we're

not, again, changing any,

any connections to the, to

route 16 or to route 1 35.

That is probably the

majority of the summary.

I think that we can open discussion.

I guess the only other thing I'd

mention is we did get comments from the

municipal light,

municipal light plant fire department

and engineering light plant and fire

department had no issue with this.

Engineering had a few comments that

they just requested that we provide some

supplemental information, which we've

done today. So everyone seems to be,

to be on board. So again, no growth

and it's a reduction in square footage,

so it's really not a traffic

generating project. So.

So the only thing, Lisa, I I just

wanted to clarify on the sidewalk.

So typically for P S I,

we would look at the adjoining

sidewalks within 600 feet.

So obviously with the college

campuses it's a little bit unique.

So Justin actually went above and beyond

and really did an evaluation on the

exterior of the parcel

of the campus along 1 35,

basically circumnavigating

most of the, you know,

three quarters of the site looking

at 1 35 along lessen road down to

Washington Street. He did an

evaluation of all those sidewalks.

The only comments we

potentially could have,

and I think this map is

super helpful, Justin,

cause it leads exactly to my

comment is that, you know,

when in Justin's analysis and in the

review by beta, it was just that,

there are a few intersections

that you could focus on as a

recommendation to the planning

board to add the ADA ramping

to it,

which would be largely at

1 35 in the college drive,

or potentially at

the pedestrian signalization at Washington

Street. But given the,

the significant area distance to 600 feet,

typically we're looking at that within

the particular RightWay to the 600

feet immediately adjoining the land.

So that it's pretty far

away. W it was the comment,

it's certainly something we

could highlight for planning

if the board so chose,

but I think it's a little greater

than P s I initially intends

because this is the college campus that

has a parcel of significant acreage.

So I just wanted to raise that point.

And then the only other thing

that we can clarify, Justin,

is that part of the

application, and Michelle,

we notice some inconsistencies

with regards to the services

provided by the M W

R T A.

So they have ramped up some of their

services in terms of our access to some

public transportation, which

is just an improvement.

So that's even above and beyond what

we, we currently have. And so, you know,

offline we can maybe set up a meeting

to just educate the college on,

on the new services that M W R T A

has as well as the fact that M B T A

is now on a clock face schedule

for the commuter rail services. So,

so that's just an additional

improvement actually in terms of

exterior transportation in

the immediate vicinity. So,

you know, happy to answer

questions from the board,

but I did just wanna call and

the map is really helpful.

So if that's something we wanted

to forward to the recommendation,

it would really be looking at

adding and the board's aware of the,

the a d a plates that we've had

on actually a large lot of our

psis in more recent time because

it's been a change in infrastructure

requirement. So as soon

as the road's touched,

which we actually don't have

jurisdiction necessarily,

we'd need mass co t approval for the,

the section on 1 35 1 Route 1 35,

which is under Mass cot

jurisdiction or Washington Street.

But, you know, so that's

just one potential.

If we were gonna put any recommendation

in it would be to add those, I think.

And, and let me just, I can tell you the,

my apologies, my.

Yeah, and those just while you're,

while you're looking that up too,

I was doing a takeoff, so like the,

from our project to the end

of College road where that

meets 1 35 just for, for reference,

it's about 2300 feet away.

Yeah. So when you make, when

you mention that 600 foot right,

we're only really looking at that

because the property is that big.

We're we're really dead, dead set

in the middle of the property.

And I think the other one was about 1300

somewhere that range just to route 16.

Yeah, it was closer to 1300 feet.

Yeah. So I mean the, the

three intersection, if,

if we were gonna make a recommendation,

they were looking at Western Road,

at Central College Road, at Central

and College Road at Washington,

those three particular locations.

But I just note the difference,

the distance, excuse me to

Justin's point, it it's,

what are those instances too,

where the information was provided?

So we were gonna do the review.

Hola, did you have a question?

Did, so I, I did notice the,

the curb reveals and that comment,

and I did recently take a,

a little bit of a walk

in Walsey Square with a

a, a young student I've been working

with on mobility who does have mobility

impairments and vision

impairments. And, you know,

the conversation that I

had with him was at the,

the bright markers are really helpful.

So, you know, there, there is a,

a need and a use for them. But one

of the things I wanted to ask about,

on page three of seven,

third paragraph to the bottom,

it's talking about Central

Street and College Road.

And there it's saying it's observed that

there was a ramp on the eastern side

that has a noticeable curb reveal on

the roadway that's not convenient for

travel by a wheelchair. Can you explain

that more to me, Megan? What kind of,

what are we talking about and what are

the alternatives for someone who is

traveling by a wheelchair

in that area or that,

that jumped out to me as being different

from the other items that were raised?

Sorry, what what street? I'm sorry,

Colette, I might have an image of it.

Central Street and College Road.

I street side of college road.

I have, I have an, I have an

image that I can project If you,

if you could stop sharing for one moment,

which might just clarify that

this is an image that Beta had

just had, oh sorry, is it up?

So this is college road at Central.

So this is that area where it's

the, the curb comes to grade.

Sorry, I'll just see if I can, I can't

really shift it. You can see sort of the,

to the northern section as well,

rather than having the a d

you know how it tends to be

a three square sort of down

with the, with the plate.

But I I I think it was saying that

that curb reveal was more troublesome

than the other areas that

they were identifying.

And so I'm wondering if

that should be elevated.

There is certainly,

there's a, a lip there.

It looks like I can

steal the screen again.

Try again Justin. Sorry. Yep.

You can see it in, in street view the,

the lip that's there. So I think there,

there were certainly some

deficiencies, you know,

a few deficiencies that were noted

in the sidewalk inventory that

would be better served being

fixed. I think the, you know,

the question is, is it part of

this project and should it be,

you know, should it be part of this

project? Cause I don't know, you know,

if that's necessarily

related. I think that's up to,

I'm assuming that's up to the board

to, to decide. But that's the,

that's the image there. You can

kind of see the, the drop off. Yep.

Yeah, if I could, if I could just

jump in really quickly. You know,

we're super committed to accessibility

on campus. We've done our own,

we've been improving accessibility

both in buildings and site pathways and

parking lots across campus. So I'm,

I'm just really interested and thankful

to hear some of these comments because

we have a means to definitely

address some of these things.

like I'm not sure this project has to

be the means to get to the ends here.

So I'm super interested in

continued conversation and hearing

some of this seems like kind of low

hanging fruit and I think it's something

that like, I'm surprised I,

I would've loved to have addressed

this like before this project. So I'm,

I'm super open to it.

I just dunno like that,

that this project should be the vehicle

in which we're trying to a approach and,

and handle these things. And I'm happy

if that's the way you deem it necessary.

But I, I just, I'm like,

I'm super interested and I think we have

some ways to address some of these low

hanging fruit issues. So it's,

it's helpful feedback. Thank you

Tom.

I, I honestly, I wanna be sure

I'm not missing something.

We have a building in the middle

of a college campus that is

going to get smaller for the

same use and it seems to me a

greatly disproportionate

conversation here going on about,

I I don't, I don't know why

we haven't taken the vote.

I I I think that, that

Michelle is, is right.

I I think if we just go to the college

and talk to 'em about a few issues like

this, that they would be responsive. But

to me this is a no-brainer. I, i, I don't,

I I wanna make sure I'm

not missing something.

So, so that's why I'm calling

it out with the fact that we,

Justin did,

it's sort of like too

much information and,

and the best way possible he went

above and beyond and really did

the whole parcel. So, so we looked at it,

but that's why I said the map is

actually really helpful. So, I mean,

it's something that, again,

I totally agree we can work with

the college on in in the future.

I was just raising it

because we, we did have it

modestly peer review because there's

not a whole lot to look at to the exact

point that you, you said Tom,

so we did just note a

couple deficiencies that

are there that could be a recommendation

if the board wanted to add them.

And we are just the

recommendation body and the,

and the planning board

would be the ultimate

permit grant authority. But I, I

don't disagree with you at all,

but I felt it from a transparency

standpoint to raise it.

Yeah, I I think it's really useful to

have those things highlighted. I don't,

I don't know that we're necessarily

planning, you know, I don't think Tom,

that we're, we're delaying a vote.

I, I didn't mean to say that

I, I, that was, you know,

I was trying to sort of make a point and

I I didn't mean there's always room for

discussion, you know, according to

what the Burke board wants to raise.

And, and I don't mean to suggest

otherwise, but I, I'm reminded

about the discussion about handicapped

curb cuts in the Honeywell school

and when I was on the school building

committee and the controversy that rose

and the expense that was added

to that project. Well beyond,

I think what the scope should

have been for the work.

So ag again, i,

I certainly don't in any way mean to

suggest any disrespect for the amount of

deliberation the board

wishes to put into this, but,

but I just think that, that the,

the college is demonstrating a

willingness to engage in these kinds of

conversations. I think they are important.

I think that is a good example of

a curb cut that ought to be fixed.

But I don't think we wanna set a precedent

that will attach to a project like

this.

Beth.

So first I think this is a really

exciting project and I'm glad to see the

investment in a health center on campus.

And I,

I think I generally agree with Tom that

it would be nice to improve the curb

cuts. I, I don't have a problem

pointing it out to planning, but I,

I don't see it as

kind of fundamental to

moving this project forward.

My question really is

about the 33 parking spaces

and is I, I guess I wondered

when the curb cut thing came up.

Is that because you're

moving the parking spaces

across the street from the campus?

the 33 was actually just a combination

of the parking that's out there around

the building today.

And it was a temporary impact because we

don't know where construction layout's

gonna be. We gotta work

with the contractor.

Those are temporary spaces that would

be relocated and they'd be absorbed into

the, into the college.

There's no plan to do anything

outside the limits of the college.

And that's just knowing

that the contractor's gonna

need to lay down somewhere.

So as soon as the building's

back in the permanent condition,

those spaces are right back to what

they are today. But there's actually,

there's contractor parking

on the campus. There's,

we've done parking studies in the

past and there's usually, you know,

a surplus of spaces of somewhere in

around on the range of 10% of the,

the parking capacity overall,

which is, well, more than the,

the 33 spaces there. So we're not,

we're not anticipating any issue with,