Good evening everyone.

It is June 12th, not January 12th,

which popped into my head for some reason.

June 12th, 2024.

It is 6:07 PM This is the meeting

of the Natick Select Board.

Would everyone in the room please rise for Pledge

of Allegiance and made moment

of silence? I pledge OFE

To the flag flag of the United States of America

and to the republic for which it stands,

one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty

and justice for all.

Thank you. Okay.

Okay, we're gonna go a little out

of order tonight.

We are going as a courtesy to the town clerk

and Finance Department.

We're going to go through the bond anticipation note process

as the first item on the agenda.

So we're going to do a couple of things. Mr.

Sidney will read the full statement, it's a vote

to approve 7.51 million

and we will sign all the associated documents.

So I'm not sure what Natick, Pegasus has planned for

the about 15 minutes or so where we have dead air,

but maybe they'll do reruns.

So without further ado, Mr. Townsend.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. John Townsend,

deputy Town administrator

and director of finance to present the bound anticipation.

I can't even say that tonight. Ban for,

Geez

Here, $7,510,000.

The sale actually was yesterday

and was sold to Fidelity Capital Markets.

Always good to see the larger hitters.

Buying our debt was a good sign that they have faith in our

Our Town.

So what I'd like to do, Mr.

Chair, I will go briefly through each of the documents

and then we will start with a vote just

to give you an overview of what you're gonna sign.

Obviously, if there's any questions, feel free to ask me

or later on if you're interested in something, I'd be happy

to to go over with you.

I'm gonna try to run through the

order in which they are on your Novus agenda.

So let's start off with the,

the vote if I can find it.

I don't seem to be able to find it. Oh, here we go. Vote.

Alright. So this is something which

of course you will vote on.

First of all, is to approve the sale to Fidelity.

The other couple things that are in here,

I'm gonna just hit the highlights on these.

I'm not go through everything 'cause

otherwise we'd be here all evening.

As much as I'd like to do that,

I don't think it'd be worthwhile.

So, first of all, approve the sale of sale facility.

It also authorizes and

otherwise accepts the position statement that we filed

with the, with the, the,

and I'll get into this a little bit.

The ruling authority

for municipal bonds authorizes the Treasurer, treasurer

and the town clerk,

and also yourselves, the select board

to sign various documents.

Also acknowledges

and allows the treasurer

to make certain disclosures to the IRS.

And then, of course, has a final statement

that you are in compliance with the open meeting law.

That'll be the vote, which will be first

up once we get through this.

The second document is the actual note itself known

for $7,510,000.

The coupon rate on this is 4.25%.

The actual interest rate is 3.6867%.

That's because we do get a premium on this particular item.

The next up, the next document is the signature, no,

no litigation and official statement certificate.

Basically what this tells you, it tells, tells us that

the project has some descriptions, which you're saying

that these are indeed what we're borrowing for.

That this is a consolidated issue under chapter

44, section 16.

What that basically is, is

that while this does have a number of different projects,

they're all treated for the purposes of this particular note

as one particular item.

This certi the treasurer, who also signs this document,

certifies that the POS is accurate and complete.

And then finally the clerk will also sign this as well,

testifying to the fact that the signatures are good

and that you are who you are, who you say you are,

and that the open meeting law as well as the rules

and regulations that with regards to the town meetings

that approve these particular items were adhered

to and correct.

After that, we move into the significant events disclosure.

What this basically says, if there are significant events

that the town incurs such things such as

non-payment of our debts, rating changes, bankruptcies

or others, awful things that might happen to the town,

although we will notify our debtors as well

as the Municipal Securities Rules Making

Board, just in case that happens.

And then finally, it was the big, the big, the big document

regarding the tax certification.

This of course is, I think I skipped one here.

Okay, yes, the eight form 8 0 3 8 G,

which basically is a form file by the treasurer saying

that this issue was issued.

And this is a form file with the IRS

because this is a tax exempt bond.

They want to know that we're issuing these bonds.

Then the tax certification, this actually basically says

that we will abide by the rule set out by the IRS

with regards to tax exempt bonds.

Also, that we will follow the applicable rules

that the IRS is set out with regards to arbitrage.

So that's the, that's the packet

of everything we'll be asking you to sign.

And so we'd like to start off with is the vote.

So Sidney questions.

Thank you. Mr. Townsend.

Just a quick question on the amounts that

where the balance is on issued of about 3.3 million, is that

because that is not required

or how, how is the rest being funded?

Or is there, will there be another borrowing later?

Another borrowing?

There'll be

another borrowing later, yeah. Yes.

They're depending on the spending schedule,

we should go up and copy

To that.

Yeah. Good. Awesome.

So the amount of each project is,

depending on the spending schedule,

we gather from department heads.

If they think that they will have the project finished

by next six months, then we will borrow the full a month.

But if they wanna do it step by step,

we gonna split the band

in half per 50% or like 30%.

It's just based on their opinion.

So we avoid paying extra interest.

Thank you. Yeah,

Just if I may just add to that

as well, one thing that we've, that we try

to structure is our timing of the bands with town meetings.

So typically there's two times a year that we borrow.

We've occasionally done more,

but in the last several years,

we've typically borrowed in the November, December,

January timeframe, post fall town meeting,

and then June, July-ish timeframe,

post springtown meeting.

Typically the July, June,

July is a more permanent borrowing.

But this year, because interest rates were so high

and they're expected to hopefully go down,

we felt it prudent with our financial advisors to do a ban.

Now, we'll likely do another ban in the

November, December, January timeframe.

Again, depending on timing of town meeting and,

and putting the projects together and the,

and making sure that we're not

borrowing before we need the money.

You know, a lot of it is just a, a, it's more

of an art than a science.

So I give full credit to the department heads to Gloria,

to John Marshall for running the capital program

and obviously John Townsend

and team for being strategic with how we borrow

and not borrowing when we just have money sitting in an

account, we're ready to spend these, these dollars.

So you won't see another probably ban until

probably December, January timeframe, probably

December.

Yeah.

So just for context, thank

You.

Thank you Chairman Evans

in the note.

Jamie, you have that

because, so the ban is for the future bond

and that is gonna get paid back.

The principal's gonna be paid back

through the bond, is that right?

Yes. So this is a bond anticipatory note.

So therefore we are borrowing

and anticipating going out for a permanent borrowing.

Our permanent borrowing long-term, borrowing

probably next July.

Now, the thing about bans is that, you know,

you're not paying back the principal on this.

We're only paying the interest on it.

So at that particular point in time, we roll it into a bond,

then we'll be given the payment schedules

and it'll go be, you know, we've leveled principal payments

as well as the interest for however long the useful life

of the actual item was.

Okay, thank you. My specific question is about

the, the remarks you made about

what would happen if we were not able to make due on this.

Is there any reason why we wouldn't be able to?

No, there's not. So what, what you're signing here

with regards to the significant event is

that you're promising that if something does happen,

we will report it to the oversight, the SEC, basically

in order to full disclosure for people.

So that's, that's what you're saying here,

that will follow the rules.

Okay. No, we're no danger to defaulting on everything.

That's certainly not a concern for us.

Okay. Thank you.

Question.

And the benefit is it's not a concern for the credit

agencies either, since we just got reissued

AAA bond rated by Fitch.

By Fitch. Yep.

Thank you.

Any other questions, Mr. Sidney?

The floor is yours. Take a deep breath.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

you've done this, you know how it goes.

I, the clerk of the select board of the town of Natick,

Massachusetts certified that at a meeting of the public

of the board held June 12th, 2024 of which meeting,

all members of the board were duly notified

and at which a quorum was present.

The following votes were unanimously passed, all

of which appear on the official record

of the board in my custody, voted to approve the sale

7510004.25%

general obligation bond anticipation.

Note the notes of the town dated June 28th, 2024,

and payable July 24th, 2025 to Fidelity Capital Markets,

a division of National Financial Services, LLC at par,

and accrued interest, if any, plus a premium

of $45,360

and 40 cents Further voted that in connection

with the marketing and sale of the notes, the preparation

and distribution of a notice of sale

and preliminary offer,

official statement dated June 5th, 2024,

and a final official statement dated June 11th, 2024,

each in such form as may be approved by the town treasurer B

and hereby are ratified, confirmed, approved, and adopted.

Further voted that the Town Treasurer and the select Board B

and hereby are authorized to execute

and deliver a significant events disclosure undertaking

in compliance with SEC Rule 15 C two dash 12 in such form

as may be approved by bond counsel in the town to the town,

which undertaking shall be incorporated

by reference in the notes for the benefit of the holders

of the notes from time to time further voted

that we authorize and direct the town treasurer

to establish post insurance federal tax compliance

procedures and continuing disclosure procedures in such

forms as the Town Treasurer and Bond Council deem sufficient

or if such procedures are currently in place to review

and update said procedures in order to monitor

and maintain the tax exempt status of the notes

and to comply with re relevant securities laws further voted

that any certificates

or documents relating

to the notes collectively the documents

may be executed in several counterparts, each

of which shall be regarded as an original,

and all of which shall constitute one in the same document

delivery of an executed counterpart of a signature page

to a document by electronic mail in a PDF file

or by other electronic transmission, shall be as effective

as delivery of a manually executed counterpart signature

page to such document.

And electronic signatures on any

of the documents shall be deemed original signatures

for the purposes of the documents

and all matters relating thereto having the same legal

effect or original as original signatures Further voted

that each member of the select board, the town clerk

and the town treasurer be

and hereby are authorized to take any and all such actions

and execute and deliver such certificates, receipts,

or other documents as may be determined by them

or any of them to be necessary or convenient to carry

and to affect the provisions of the foregoing votes.

I further certified that the votes were taken at,

at a meeting open to the public

that no vote was taken by secret ballot.

That a notice stating the place, time, date,

and agenda for the meeting,

which agenda included the adoption of the

above votes was filed with the town clerk

and a copy thereof posted in a manner conspicuously visible

to the public at all hours in

or on the municipal building that the town office

of the town clerk is located,

or if applicable, in accordance with an alternative method

of notice prescribed

or approved by the Attorney General has set forth in nine 40

CMR 29.03, paragraph two B at least 48 hours,

not including Saturday Sundays

and legal holidays prior to the time of the meeting,

and remain so posted at the time of the meeting

that no deliberations

or dec decisions in connection with the sale

of the notes were taken in executive session.

All in accordance with General Law Chapter 30 a, sections 18

to 25 as amended.

And do I have to do several votes or is one vote enough?

Just one vote. It's fine. And I so move. Second,

Second, move by Mr.

Sidney, seconded by Ms. Walser.

Any discussion or shall we get our pens ready?

Okay. All right, we're gonna going to be, oh, there we are.

All in favor? Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. It's four zero.

Zero. Great. That would've been embarrassing.

Okay. All right.

So we're going to be busy probably for the next 15 minutes,

signing documents.

So done. We're back. Our signatures are all in place.

So let's first go

to public speak.

Do that, get that outta the way. You know what?

Yeah, let's do it in order, let's do announcements.

First up is Juneteenth Day.

Do you have anything on that, Jamie?

I know there there's a reading at the library at 11,

Correct?

Yes. And a lot

of the outline is actually on the Natick Center Cultural

District website, natick center.org.

And from there you can search

or find the Juneteenth events page.

And really it's, it's a celebration on the common with food,

music, and inspirational speakers about celebrating

what June, you know, Juneteenth and,

and the history of Juneteenth.

There is a speaker, like you mentioned,

at 11:00 AM on the steps of the Morris Institute Library

put on by the Natick Historical Society in the

Natick for Black Lives Matter.

And it's gonna be a reading of Frederick Douglass's.

What to a Slave is the July is July 4th,

and then the celebration continues in the district from one

to 4:00 PM and includes speakers,

performances, activities, and food.

A SL interpreting services will be

available during the event as well.

More information on the webs,

on the natick center.org website.

Perfect. Thank you Mr.

Ericks. One week from today.

Try next Wednesday. Okay. Natick Summer Eats.

Didn't have a chance to print that one out.

Does anybody have that readily in front of them?

We can do that one too.

Go ahead, Jamie.

Just pulling it up. So,

Natick Summer Eats is a joint partnership

that the town is doing with YMCA

and it is intended, it's actually a grant funded project

and it's designed to help really provide free meals for kids

and teens 18 under, it's a program

that is, I believe it's a national program

in many communities,

but in essence there's a kickoff party on Thursday,

June 13th from three 30

to 5:30 PM at the West Hill Park in Natick.

And there'll be various days throughout the summer

and it's designed to provide free meals,

especially targeting or hopefully for, well, really

for anybody who needs a meal,

but especially those who might not

be able to get a meal on their own.

And it's really designed for kids

and it's in partnership with the YMCA.

Awesome, awesome.

Next up is also for you, Jamie,

I think is the Rhode Island Avenue sale.

Yep. And this was just an announcement of an action

that the board took at the last meeting in executive

session, basically authorizing the sale of Rhode Island.

Rhode Island Avenue. We've entered into the purchase

and sale agreement with the developer,

and it's basically the, well,

it's less the developer and the property owner.

It's the property owner that, that owns both sides

of Rhode Island Avenue and they also own the, the

car wash at that location.

So it's just an announcement of that sale.

We have executed the purchase sale agreements,

so now we're gonna be doing the actions of the PNS

and then we'll eventually go to closing.

Awesome.

I can do the next one.

Thank you.

And this is just an announcement just to,

and it's really, it was a little bit more of just trying to,

with the bond signing

and the issuance that we did this week,

really giving a big shout out, shout out of kudos

to our team and the finance division,

but also just the town in general about Fitch's affirming

Natick's AAA bond rating with an outlook of stable.

Great job to our team for that.

It was not required as part

of the general obligation bonding, but Fitch did that

and they do do it fairly regularly

and we've been pretty consistent

with getting a AAA bond rating.

So this is great work for the team and for the town.

Thank you Mr. Erickson.

Just a further comment on that earlier, when we sign

the $7.5 million ban,

the reason we're able to get an attractive interest rate,

even in a difficult, excuse me, lending climate is

that AAA rating.

And that's why we continue to endeavor to maintain

that AAA rating.

So that's why we try to adhere to our

financial management principles

and when we have to deviate from that,

it's a short term deviation

and we get back to those principles as quickly as we can.

I'm happy to do five hour Street.

Alright, good.

Get

To it.

Alright, next up we've got

mass DOT I'll give Jamie a little rest on this one,

which is the mass DOT put out a information.

They having an information session, which is tomorrow

for the Service Plaza

Upgrades virtual meeting as part of an ongoing commitment

to transparency and community engagement, mass,

DOT is hosting a series of public meetings to gather

input on 18 Service Plaza properties.

And there's a Zoom link,

this is on Novus agenda, it takes place

on, there are, let's see, no seven

rest areas that are, that are being talked about

on tomorrow night's meeting.

So generally the, the, the issues are pretty similar.

For example, the lighting of, of

and spillover from the property was something

that we addressed the last time this came up.

So again, it's tomorrow night, June 13th, zoom link

is provided online.

Okay. Okay, Ms. Pope.

Thank you. Good evening.

So we are also announcing that nomination papers

for the associate planning board seat will be available.

Actually, they are available in the town clerk's office

that is here at Town hall.

And the town clerk's office is open from eight to five,

Monday through Wednesday, eight to 7:00 PM on Thursday

and Friday, eight to 12:30 PM They need

to be returned by June the 18th.

So next Tuesday, please, we encourage you

to get involved.

Our elected, our elected positions are important

and so we encourage you to, if you are interested

to go get nomination papers from the Town Clerk's office

and to return them next Tuesday on June 18th.

The last announcement we have is for an open house

for five Auburn Street.

That's going to be next two June 18th.

From five 30 to seven o'clock, you can come out

and talk to Metro West Collaborative Development

Corporation, the Davis Square Architects

and other members of the team

to learn more about the preservation

and redevelopment of the historic Elliot School at

five Auburn Street.

The meeting will happen at

the community senior center,

which is at one 17 East Central Street,

and they encourage you to stop by at any time

between five 30 and 7:00 PM next Tuesday.

Thank you, Mr. Pope. Mr. Sidney.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I have two announcements.

Tomorrow at noon at the corner of, at the co corner

of the Common at 27 0 1 35,

the Natick Center Cultural District is asking people

to join them and celebrating the completion

of the Natick Center Stormwater Education

Public Art Project.

And you can meet the artist at the time, her name is,

or their name is Becca ue.

And if you want more information, you can email

Claire Relli Sea relli@natickmat.org.

Second, I want to note that Friday is Flag Day.

Flag Day is a holiday celebrated on June 14th.

It commemorates the adoption of the flag

of the United States on June 14th, 1777 by a resolution

of the second Continental Congress.

The flag resolution stated that the flag

of the 13 United States be 13 stripes alternate red

and white, that the union be 13 stars white in a blue field,

representing a new constellation.

The US Army also celebrates the US Army birthday in the

state as Congress adopted the American Continental Army.

After reaching consensus position in the Committee

of the Hall on June 14th, 1775.

In 1916, president Woodrow Wilson issued a proclamation that

of officially established June 14th

as Flag Day On August 13th.

On August 3rd, 1949, national Flag Day was established

by an act of Congress.

President Biden has issued his annual proclamation,

and this is also Flag Week.

I would note that if you have a worn flag,

proper disposal is by burning.

If you can't burn it yourself,

because most of us don't have fire pits,

you can take your flag over to the VFW

and hand it to the manager or the bartender

and they will ensure that it's properly disposed of.

Thank you very much, Mr. Sydney.

I've got one which is from Native 180,

and they're, they say that our partners at Families

for Depression Awareness are hosting a free Family Stress

Survival Guide workshop this month.

It's open to all Natick residents.

The dates are June 17th

and June 24th from six to 8:00 PM

The information and link is on the website,

or I'm sorry, on Novus agenda.

Or you can email to Ari a

rri@familyaware.org org.

Does anybody else have any?

Okay, moving on to public speak.

Any individual may raise an issue that's not on the agenda

and it will be taken under advisement.

There'll be no opportunity for debate

during this portion of the meeting.

And speakers are limited to five minutes

per person and we've allotted a maximum

of 15 minutes total.

Is anybody wanting to speak?

I do not see anyone. Well, no one in the room.

I but anybody online?

Jamie? I don't see anyone. I haven't seen

Anyone,

No.

Okay. Let's move on to appointments.

The first item reappointment

of Michelle Laramie is controller has been moved to our

June 26th, 2021 agenda.

So we'll move on to item B, which is reappointment

of MHTL.

I was gonna try the entire name, but I figured I'd botch it.

And Kara North as Town Council Murphy Hessey

somebody and Lehe to me.

To me. I was kidding. Sorry.

Anyway, so any discussion about that?

Just note, there's a memo in the packet

as well for informational purposes.

Thank you,

Ms. Well, softner,

Oh, I, I've been on town meetings since I don't even know

how long, and Murphy Hessey tuned me

and Louhan has always been our town council.

But do we ever consider putting it out to bid

to other firms or looking at other firms?

So, it's a good question.

So my understanding is that

that has not happened often.

The, I believe it was, it could have been a town meeting

or it was a select board.

It predates my time as town administrator.

It happened I think in 2019 ish.

There was a town council committee

or advisory committee that was working

to just study town council services.

Part of that, I think was also looking at how our charter

and bylaws worked as well, just given how it's structured.

Some communities of our size have a combination of,

in-house counsel, meaning a town staff person

that's a lawyer and outside counsel

that can be used for a specialty item.

So I believe that that was also part of that analysis.

But I believe the work of

that group got a little bit stymied by the COVID pandemic

that predated covid or was heading into covid.

And I be, my understanding was

that there was a final report, but I, again,

that I was actually actually not

working for the town at the time.

So I don't know where that final report standard

or landed with the select board.

And then since that time, notice that has not been

a request or, or been discussed by the board.

All right. Thank you. Yeah.

So

Yeah, just to add a little bit,

the way our current charter

and bylaws are written, charter, actually

we can only appoint a council for a one year term.

It sort of precludes hiring anybody in house,

which would be one of the alternatives.

One of the changes that the CBRC has proposed in their

special act is to allow for longer appointments

and perhaps an in-house counsel to be actually enacted.

Okay. One other thing I'd like to add is the,

we from time to time have had special counsel brought in,

and that's typically done in areas

where town council feels it's merited.

We certainly have alcohol counsel, we have MAR Medical,

just marijuana in general counsel, the

CBRC special council.

So there, there are avenues to get the expertise in.

We can certainly look at this in the future,

but as of now, we're kind of on this path

with MHTL.

And that's, I have to say,

you know, one of, one of the things when, when you brought

that up, I was thinking of the number of years

where we've had town council

answer difficult questions,

usually on the fly in town meeting.

And I think provided comprehensive answers

on the fly and given us good advice that we were able

to follow so uncomfortable

continuing with that.

Perhaps we can discuss in the future whether we want

to have an in-house versus a outside counsel,

but that's, that's a discussion probably for another day.

So, Mr. Sidney,

I'm ready with a motion.

I'm ready with

Move.

We reappoint MHTL as town council. Second.

Okay. Thank you. Move by Mr. Sidney. And second in my, if

I'm, if I may miss please.

I just want to add the amount of institutional knowledge

that MHTL has with our town is

enormous and they

understand how the town works really well.

Moving from John Flynn to Caras, also, the fact

that they have attorneys that Dave,

I forget his last name, DeLuca.

DeLuca works with us on occasion.

I just want to note

that we've had a very good working relationship with them.

And I just want to sort of, I don't want it

to seem like we're being poo-pooing the idea.

I I think it's worth considering, you know, it keeps

council fresh.

There is a lot of institutional knowledge with them.

You know, we, we, we can

certainly take it up at a future meeting,

but I don't want to dismiss it out of hand,

but I echo what Mr.

Sidney said. I'm extremely satisfied with the,

both the response time.

I think one of the concerns of the in-house versus

outside was, was response time.

And I've actually been pretty satisfied

with the response time

that I've seen over the last couple of years.

I think it's improved, honestly,

but we can discuss this some other day.

Bruce,

I'm sorry, miss,

I, I just want to add that my question had nothing to do

with the current town council who I think is fabulous.

So, and when I was chair of the finance committee,

she was incredibly responsive

and sometimes would get things very last minute

and would write very thoughtful answers.

So it's just more of a process question on my behalf,

you know, do we typically look at these things?

So that was a legitimate and excellent question.

You, you do wanna keep them,

keep them on their toes a little bit.

So appreciate that, Linda.

Okay, so we have to take a vote to reappoint them, don't we?

So do I have a motion? Yeah, we do have a motion.

Rich and Linda. All right. How quickly I forget.

All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. All right.

Sorry, I'm out of practice here.

Okay, next up is the interview applicants

for the ZBA for a term from

5 1 20 24 to 4 30 20 27.

And Derek Wheeler withdrew his application.

So we just have Jason

McKowski for an interview.

Is that you, I assume that was you,

but would you mind just giving

sort of the elevator pitch of, you know,

what you've been doing on the ZBA

and why you want to continue doing that?

Sure, yeah. Good evening. Members of the board.

Jason McKowski? I am, I well, you've got my resume.

I've been in Natick since I about 1996.

Soon thereafter, I joined the Conservation Commission in

Natick and was a member on the Conservation Commission

for about 18 years, I think, if my math is correct.

And then jumped over to the zoning board of appeals maybe

eight or 10 years ago now, it seems.

But it's been good. I, I enjoy, well, more of my background.

My, my bachelor degree is in civil engineering.

I, I was a civil engineer for about six

or seven years, then I went back to law school,

became an attorney in 2005.

So that's coming up on almost 20 years now as an attorney.

I went in from the Conservation commission when I met a

fellow Natick resident who had also gone

to civil engineering and law school

and was practicing as an attorney.

And he

and I at the time actually wrote the first wetlands

protection bylaw for Natick.

And then the, the regulations that followed under that.

And that was sort of my entry to law, writing law

and practicing law.

And then got interested in, in doing land use

and potentially development type law, which is

what this other fellow did ends up I did more commercial

finance work as a private attorney in a, in a law firm.

And then about 16 years ago, I jumped over

to this CDM Smith, used to be Camp Dresser McKee,

which is a, a large engineering,

civil engineering firm in Boston

with offices around the world.

So I'm one of their six in-house attorneys now at this civil

engineering firm, which is, seems like a good fit

for a civil engineer who went to law school.

So I've enjoyed my time, my wife

and I in Natick these, oh,

25 nearly 30 years.

And I really, I appreciate being on these committees,

being on the conservation, serving

on the zoning board of appeals.

I think it gives me a, a way

to exercise my civil engineering background,

my law background in ways that I can't do in my nine

to five job.

It's just a little bit different

aspect, a different feature.

And I get to exercise different muscles, if you will, and,

and, you know, help with self-governance

and, you know, govern the town and,

and make sure that there are people in place like yourselves

who are willing to volunteer their time

to make sure this is a smooth running operation

and look out for the interests

of the taxpayers and the residents.

Thank you very much.

I, Mr. Sidney.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Ms. Pope, I,

your resume's very impressive

and I note that you're currently vice chair of the ZBA.

I'm wondering what your attitude is on how

to manage creeping ionization across town with,

you know, demo permits and,

and you know, a lot of marginal

by right development that happens.

How do you manage that so it doesn't overwhelm the town?

I think, well, I mean, I guess I would say

that the primary purpose for the zoning board

of appeals is when people need relief

from the zoning bylaws.

Those that have by right rights to develop,

they don't come before us.

Well, they do for a demo permit, right?

No, no permit, no, only when permit, it's,

when it's discretionary and when a permit has been denied

by the building commissioner is when it comes

to the zoning board of appeals.

So we handle, we handle variances where people need relief

to create a new violation of the zoning bylaw.

Or most commonly it's a section six finding,

which is dealing with preexisting non-conforming uses

and structures where they wanna expand

or renovate a preexisting nonconforming use.

So I guess I would say,

reading into your question a little bit about Manchin,

I think the board has been pretty good.

And I feel comfortable when we're looking

at section six findings for a, an expansion

or extension of a pre-existing non-conforming use.

When we grant that relief, we try to make sure

that these structures are within the zoning requirements.

So, for example, if the setback on a, on a rear yard is 25

and someone's already encroaching, you know,

they're 20 feet from their rear yard, a lot

of times the developers in order thinking

that it'll be easier to get approval,

will pull the new structure and,

and center it on the property and,

and come back into compliance with that 25 yard setback.

So eliminating of, of violation of the, of the setback or,

or lessening it if they don't come into full compliance.

And those are the things we encourage

and those are the things we, we look for.

And we're probably more likely to approve when they reduce

the violation or remove the violation.

So I would say that we're, we're sort of moving,

we're trying to move closer to more conformance

and compliance with the zoning requirements.

Thank you very much,

Ms. Paul?

Yes, thank you Jason.

Thank you first of all, for all of your service up

until this point, I really enjoyed one,

reading your history, then also listening to you.

I wonder from you, what do you feel like is gonna be

the most impactful for the ZBA

Going forward?

Honestly, it's it, you know, month to month it's

a lot of the same stuff.

So as far as impact goes, we are,

we are giving relief to a strict reading of the zoning laws

when people come before us and ask for an extension

or alteration of their, usually pre-existing non-conforming.

As far as greatest impact, I think we have to,

in large part, defer to the town meeting

because they are the ones that write

and approve the zoning bylaws.

So if they change the bylaws,

we need to be cognizant of that.

If they want to reduce lot sizes

or increase setbacks,

we would need to take that into account.

So that could be a major change in the way we do things.

'cause we have to take into account the new zoning bylaw.

Yeah, I don't, I don't, I hate to say that we don't have a,

a large impact, but I, I don't,

I can't put my finger on exactly

what a major impact would be

that the zoning board would be able to accomplish.

Okay, thank you. I mean, we could, I, I guess,

let me say this, if the, if the town meeting asked for it,

we could provide input into rewriting any aspect

of the zoning bylaws based on our perspective on the board.

We could perhaps, if we're invited

to the town meeting, provide that input.

Thank you

Ms. Wallock.

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Thank you for reapplying again, great resume

and application, but you dovetailed right

into my question on this.

I know that the zoning bylaws,

there's been a threatened rewrite for many years

and that there are probably some things that you have seen

with them and your board has seen

that you would probably like to be changed.

And I wondered if that was something

that your board would consider being involved with

or provide suggestions to the planning board, to town staff

about areas where you might

see some things that need to be done.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I,

I think the way the town is structured currently,

the planning board is the one who generally conceives of

and, and initiates the process for a zoning

change to the zoning bylaws.

But certainly, and I have been involved in other committees

or subcommittees, I think it was a committee

of the town meeting at the time to look at changes

to the zoning bylaws.

This was maybe four or five years ago now.

And so I think they requested one representative

of the zoning board to sit on

that town meeting committee and I was that person.

So we did have some input in that at that level.

I don't know that it actually achieved any changes.

I, it kind of fizzled out after a time.

But we can certainly do that.

We would certainly be welcome, you know, subject

to the chairman's approval or if someone requests from the

zoning board a representative to attend one

of these other town meeting committees to opine

or give input on changes.

I, I'm sure, you know, most of the members I know would,

would appreciate that opportunity.

Thank you.

Just let me start with a comment just

first and then continue with questions.

And it has to do with the zoning bylaws.

The, the zoning board of appeals

has to follow the zoning bylaws as they exist today.

And a large part of natick is

what is known as pre-existing non-conforming, right?

So when somebody wants to, let's say,

take down an existing building

and it's a pre-existing non-conforming, as long

as they don't expand beyond

that pre-existing non-conforming, I'll call it envelope

that is within their right as a property owner to do that.

Having said that,

and this is where I'll segue to my questions.

First of all, thank you for being willing to do this and,

and leveraging your expertise

and your time is invaluable

to prepare for this hearing.

I watched a couple ZBA meetings from earlier this year,

and it was interesting to follow one in particular,

which was 10 Coolidge Avenue.

And the building commissioner had

denied their building permit.

So the applicant sought a section six finding

during those hearings.

The neighborhood abutters raised their concerns

through the ZBA and the applicant

and several, I'll call it, I think it was two

or three meetings later, an iterative process.

They arrived at a mutually agreeable solution.

And to me, that's how the process

of public input should work.

And, and I, I think that's a, a great sort of model

to follow as, as much as possible

with the zoning bylaws

and changing hats here, the

plan has been to iteratively improve

the bylaws, for example.

And at the last town meeting, you had to clean up

of all the definitions so you didn't have things pointing

to different places in the bylaws possibly contradicting

and probably actually contradicting themselves.

So to make it clearer to do that, that that's kind

of both the fundamental problem and the lone hanging fruit,

but it's, it's a, it takes a a lot of time to do that.

I think we need to find a way to make the lots

in town less non

pre-existing non-conforming if we change the bylaws.

And a lot of times it's changing the bylaws very in

very small increments.

You know, you change the setback five feet, let's say,

that could be the difference between, you know,

50% being out of compliance to 40 or 30% out of compliance.

So it's looking at those types of things that CED

and the planning board are jointly looking to do.

They're looking to, to actively looking to do this.

So I think, you know, we, we can probably entertain

a, a conversation about maybe creating our, our committee

to possibly change some of this.

So I think it's, it's important for us to,

to try to get, you know, we don't wanna put the ZBA out

of business, but we'd like them to maybe get a few lists,

contentious cases.

So any further

questions from the board?

Any comments from the public? ms? We Roberts,

I got the time wrong on this hearing.

Oh, that's why I am here at just before seven.

I apologize for missing public speak.

I started, for those of you who don't know,

I started attending all of the zoning board hearings except

for a few, which I watched on video recording

a little over a year ago.

Oh, okay. Hold on on one second. Oh, sorry.

Could you just say your name and address please?

Oh, I'm sorry. Gail Western Roberts 26 Western Avenue.

Thank you for taking some time. I'll keep this short.

My concerns are basically

what I've already been hearing since we got into the room.

But I have some specific points that I would like people

to be aware of in terms of how things have been going.

For one thing, if we are enforcing our bylaws,

that includes enforcing the bylaws as they're written.

And right now the bylaws are being

consistently set to the side.

In other words, they're being ated, which is

of course the thing that's not supposed to happen

because in the past two years, according

to my calculations from looking at the decision letters

for each of the, just talking about the demolition cases,

not talking about all the rest of ZBA business,

there are approximately 70 applications for demolition

of a private residence.

And out of those 70 that came

before the board, only one was denied.

So we lost 69, if I have my numbers correct, 69 houses

where there was an option for the board to say no

based on a different idea of what's detrimental

in a substantial way to our neighborhoods.

You know, if it were only one, one denial out of 20,

you could say, well that's probably

because they were good projects

and they should have been approved.

But when it's one out of 70, we have a problem.

And I'd like to point out that the membership on this board,

only two of the eight members are not in some way part

of the real estate and development industry.

Now that's a, an issue with how they were all appointed.

There's nothing wrong with being in those

in, in those, in that industry.

But it's a problem in terms of having a diverse board.

And the last thing I'll say is

because there is a lack of concern

consistently coming from this board about the idea of

what they consider to be detrimental being a much higher

threshold than it is for the people who actually live

near these very disruptive damaging projects.

Because of that differentiation, people come

before the board and they say the same concerns over

and over that are not cosmetic.

They're not silly, they're, they have to do with

what decision letters from this board used to cite.

They used to cite until the beginning

of last year when they changed the language.

I don't know who is responsible

for the change in the language of the decision letters,

but they eliminated two clauses in the boilerplate section.

I could read it to you, but I, I don't know if I should do

that with the time you have.

But there are two sections that have to do

with not intruding on adjacent residences

creating an appearance of building congestion, consistency

and scale, character

and appearance with the neighboring homes.

Those two have been eliminated from the decision letters.

When I inquired with the department why

they were no longer there,

I was told it was an administrative

decision or management decision.

That was my only answer.

So there are a lot of other things I could describe,

but I think that's sufficient.

And thank you very much for your time.

Thank you Ms. We Robert, any other comments?

I, I think that

that's a concern that, that I think we should take up

with the chair

and to get a, I'd like an answer to that question as

to why, if it's a year

and a half where that a year

and a half ago where that change was made, I'd like

to understand why, but I don't think

we should hold up the reappointment

of Mr.

McKowski because of that.

So I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Sidney

Move.

We reappoint Jason McKowski to the zoning board of appeals

for a term of May 1st, 2024

through April 30th, 2027.

Is that good?

Second, Ms.

Walser all in favor of say or discussion?

I'm sorry Ms.

Walser, I just want to thank Ms.

Wein Roberts for, for coming before us.

And I agree with the temporary chair Evans

that it's something

that I think the board should pay attention to.

Thank you

Mr. Sidney.

Thank you. I, you know, I'm also concerned about what Ms.

Western Roberts brought up.

I did a bit of research. It's a very difficult position.

The zoning board gets in between case law and state law

and changes in the zoning and other things.

I would like to see them pay more attention to the neighbors

and you know, maybe look

for ways to do major renovation instead

of like tear down rebuild.

But they're quasi-judicial body.

We can appoint only those people that come

and ask to be appointed.

We, it's hard to find people for this as much as I'd like to

appoint people that aren't

all developers, that isn't who's stepping up.

Oh,

I want to ditto what Ms. Slager said.

And it's interesting that you say that Mr.

Sidney, because one

of the things I was thinking in terms of what Ms.

We Robert shared

and in the looking at the board online is

that this board needs greater diversity,

it needs greater diversity in the makeup of who is who.

The, the makeup is in sex and gender in background.

It needs greater diversity.

And so we can just put that out there that this is a board,

you know, that people should look into.

I hear what you're saying about people stepping up

and it's hard to find it, but is this board

an eight person board?

Yes, five permanent are five regular members

and three alternate

Because we, that means it's fully staffed.

Yes, it is fully appointed.

So somehow we've been able to find eight people to serve.

And I'm not saying that it's not harder

to find other people, but I don't want us to,

to relax on that.

That there may be people who might have an interest

and we hope at some, you know, we should be doing our part

as well to get that word out

because this board needs greater thought in terms

of the makeup and I'm grateful for the people

who have served, but that's important in terms

of the outcomes that we get.

We agree more. Yep. Anyone else?

And all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Thank you Jason. Appreciate you coming in.

Okay, next.

Oh, we have discussion and decision

and we have the affordable housing trust

accessory dwelling.

I'm sorry chief, I'm looking right at you too.

Your update please. Thank you.

It's a little bit of a bonus starting early.

Might get home to watch the Celtics.

That's count. Huh? Don't star.

So good evening. Thank you for having me this evening.

At the request of the chair, I was asked

to come provide a brief update of

where we're at with the fire department.

Her parting words were, be, be be brief,

be brilliant, and be gone.

So I promise I'll be brief and I will be gone.

The first thing I wanna do is I wanna thank

and recognize the members of the department who every day

just truly make this an exemplary fire department.

We have many talented individuals

who collectively come together to make a great department.

The simple stuff that they do every day on the fire

and EMS calls to the more specialized teams like dive

technical, rescue hazards,

materials and the rescue task force.

They really do a great job.

Several months ago, we're actually coming up on two years

that I've been here in July.

So September of my first year I came

with a bunch of information.

So I just wanna briefly kind of talk about where we're at

and hit a few of those points

and kind of talk about what we've accomplished

and where we're, where we're continuing to, to strive.

Our call volume still continues to be at historical highs.

Last year we finished off,

and these are on calendar years, not fiscal years.

The calendar year we finished off with 5,854 emergency runs.

That's up from roughly about 200, 250 runs from the

previous two years.

So it was 5,622

and 5,347 the previous year.

So in a little over two years,

we've gone up 500 calls a year.

The fire calls have kind of leveled

and remained consistent there about 2,350

runs give or take.

And that's been consistent over the last couple of years.

And our EMS is the one that continues to to increase.

Last year we did 3,509,

which is up from 32 63 of the year before.

So again, that, that, that kind of follows true

that our population is aging.

The health, our population has probably declined a little

bit as a result of covid and the lingering effects of covid.

So we're continuing to see EMS be busy.

We did see a shift and I think it's got

to do a little bit with the workforce.

Previously, I think Mondays

and Fridays were our busiest days.

It's now shifted to Tues Thursday being the busiest

and Tuesday right behind it.

They're all not too far behind it.

But I think it kind of fits the profile

of when you're looking at the commute

and you're looking at the traffic and the congestion.

Tuesdays, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday seem

to be our busiest, the busiest days for everything

and everybody is taking advantage of working at home

and staying off the roads.

Our mutual aid calls continue to to, to cri to climb.

It's more so the receive side.

Our given calls remains consistent,

but our, the help

that we're requesting into town continues to rise.

So last year we were up up to 219.

That's up from 103 last year.

Again, probably 90, 94% of that is EMS.

Right now we, the way I looked at the first six months

of this year and the first six months

of last year we're at about 90 from Mutual Aid

and last year we were at 60.

So I'm expecting to see that number be well

above 200 this year.

And then with the implementation of our new software,

the one call, the one data point that's been really neat

to track is simultaneous calls.

So that means that we have a call

that comes in while another call's in progress.

So we had 1,350 occurrences of that last year

over the course of our, of our, our 24 hour period.

So when you look at it, when we have two

or more calls go, two calls going on,

that happens about 834 times, 325 times.

We've had three calls going on.

And then the interesting stat was that between five

and we've had as many as 22 calls going on all at the same

time, which is well beyond our, that's,

that's exceeded our capacity by a large amount.

It doesn't happen every day,

but when I run the numbers between five

and 22, that happens at least once a month.

So we have a significant surge every, every once in a while.

And the 22 I would attribute to

usually a storm related event

or a weather related event that comes in and spikes.

And then last year was probably one

of our highest fire losses in the last several years

we sustained just under $4 million, three,

3.77 million

in fire damage.

So that's kind of consistent

with the cost of everything going up.

The one thing that that doesn't take into account,

those are estimates that doesn't kind of really account

for the true replacement cost of, of these items.

Switching over and looking at the operations.

So this is where we've had a lot of movement.

The first two software that we had requested for support

for is implemented.

We have most of the modules up and running.

It's working very well.

We've had a few hiccups along the road,

but again, it's trying to get technology

that is somewhat limited to fit an operation

that's very large and dynamic.

I think we've had, we've been very successful in that realm.

I don't know if you remember back at one

of the FinCon meetings, you had asked,

when are we gonna staff that second ambulance full time?

And I, I told you that I would do it by September.

We actually ended up doing it by January.

So in January we staffed the second ambulance full time.

I then I wanted to make sure, I don't like to go backwards.

I like to make sure that something's going to be successful

and ensure that it's gonna be successful

before we make drastic changes.

So in, I'm sorry, take that back.

July of last year, we staffed the second ambulance

and then in January of this year we moved it up

to West Natick.

So it was a few months ahead of what I,

what I told you I would meet for a deadline.

But we did make that deadline.

And then the neat thing that we're seeing is, is

that it's kind of decreased call, call response time

for an ambulance out to the west side

of town by about a minute or so.

And then prior to staffing that second ambulance,

we saw a volume of one truck doing about 90% of the work

and the other truck doing about 10% of the work, they're now

hovering about 50 50.

And I didn't expect it to be a perfect system.

It's 50 54, 50 5% to the other,

you know, the first day I think all the, the first day

that we moved the truck out there, all the calls were in

West Anti and that truck did all the calls

and I think everybody was alarmed that

that was gonna be the busiest truck.

But it averaged out over several days.

Our ambulance billing contract is current That's good until

November of 25.

We've seen an uptick in receipts, mostly due to

kind of ensuring that the paperwork is properly completed

and and timely completed.

The staffing front's probably

been one of our biggest challenges.

We've we're in that period of time

where we're gonna have a lot of retirements and turnover.

We've had three, three retirements in the last year.

I have two pending retirements

and two of two of those five retirements

are senior staff members.

Deputy Pete Carney, which was well over 30, 30 plus years.

And then Deputy Dow is slated, they're gonna do a,

his last day is July 11th if anybody's out

and about, feel free to stop by and and visit with Dan.

He'll be there for the day shift

and he's completing as 30 plus years as well.

So what does that equate to?

That equates to a significant volume of hiring.

We've hired about 18 people over the last 22 months.

Four of those have been female firefighters, most of them,

a large chunk of them were paramedics.

We have a few that were hired that were basic EMTs

that are actually going to be heading off to medic school.

I think we're, we're still plagued with some vacancies.

We're back up to seven.

I have two that are just completing the process.

We'll be back down to five.

It's become very difficult to just to recruit

and attract personnel.

And I think that's becoming a bit of an industry problem,

not just a Natick specific problem.

The the one thing I will say is

that we are being a little bit selective

and making sure that we are bringing in high quality

candidates to kind of help

build upon the foundation that we have the capital plan.

Done a lot of diving and research on that.

So from the equipment standpoint,

meaning the fire apparatus, the ambulances,

I think we have a good plan in place

and I think we're in a good situation with

how we're replacing them.

The fire stations, I think we need to

work a little bit more.

We've been working with facilities over the last year.

There are some projects coming up that are going

to help address some of those shortcomings.

But I think long term we need

to evaluate some of the facilities.

And I think this year in the capital plan, we had

a small study of station two down in South Natick, just

to kind of assess where that building's at

and what, what our potential options are

before we end up investing either heavily in the building

or looking at what our other options

are, grants and donations.

So when I first got here, we,

we enrolled in what's called the CPE program,

which is a certified public expenditures program.

And that's basically a way to offset some of the

costs associated with delivering EMS to Medicaid patients.

So Medicaid pays a fixed rate,

which is significantly lower than private insurance.

So this program allows you to recoup some of your costs.

So the first year we had 117,000 that came back.

This past year was 137,000.

And I would anticipate when it opens this year, again,

we'll probably be somewhere in that, that ballpark

and has some variation.

We were successful in getting an assistance

to firefighters grant.

They wrote, they gave us a little bit less than

what we had asked for, but that equated out to $112,000

for personal protective equipment.

Doesn't cover all of our needs,

but it covers a significant port part of it.

The Department of Fire Services also gave us a grant this

year where we applied for a grant this year, which equated

to $14,000.

Last year. It was a little bit higher at 19,000.

This year was 14,000.

We bought some, some additional safety vests

and some other equipment that we wouldn't

have normally been able to purchase.

repinski, representative Linsky has been very generous to us

through the state budget process.

We've gotten a total of $25,000 last year.

And then in this year we're slated for $50,000 for

PFAS free turnout gear.

And I'm happy to report that I wasn't expecting to be able

to buy PFAS free turnout gear, which is being linked

to a lot of our, our cancer problems across the,

the industry of the fire service.

I wasn't expecting to be able to buy any of

that stuff till 26.

The manufacturers were a little bit ahead,

so we actually just placed an order yesterday for

our first nine sets of it.

So it's kind of like a new model on a car.

I don't know how it's,

how it's gonna be in comparison to the other stuff.

And I'm also curious the, we have some equipment,

our equipment comes in essentially three pieces.

So it's like having one of those Columbia jackets

that has the fleece flying on the inside, the

outside of it's the shell.

The inside is the part that has the waterproof membrane

and the, and the PFAS on that.

I was hoping that we'd be able to interchange 'em,

but I think it's just like anything else.

They, it's like Apple. They changed the charger.

I think they changed the style a little bit,

but more to come on that as it comes out.

We just received, we've been working

for a little over a year

with the Natick Labs on what's called the credo.

It's basically a research project which started by

one of our deputies just saying hi on Natick days to

the group from the Natick labs struck up a conversation.

They have a, all of the army's ballistics

research is done here in Natick.

They had a program that they were willing to, to sign us up

for where they basically outfitted our rescue task force.

We have 20 sets

of ballistics gear vests that they're wearing.

It's actually a higher level protection than

what we originally had.

And they, the only request that they have is

that occasionally the, throughout the research period is

that they take three sets back, evaluate it, see

what it's doing as far as where,

and then it comes back at the end of the, at the end

of the research project, we get to keep the equipment,

they get the research and everybody, everybody benefits.

And the, the advantage to this program was also that it came

with the latest and greatest of carriers.

So it's a lot more equipped, it's a lot more comfortable,

but it also fits our personnel a lot better.

So the stuff we had before was generic.

So if you put it on me, it was like this big.

And if you put it on some of our smaller

firefighters, it covered everything.

This stuff is a little bit more customizable

and we have a variety of sizes.

So that was, you never know what's gonna happen

when you say hi to someone.

And that's a, that's a perfect example of,

you know, being nice to people.

Some new initiatives that we have going on.

So if you haven't seen or met Louis yet, I'm sorry.

There's a great opportunity this weekend, Saturday morning,

if you look on our Facebook page, we're Louis's doing a meet

and greet to benefit the

native service council's food pantry.

So if you wanna meet him, come on down,

bring something non-perishable.

He's been a great asset to the, to the department,

you know, everywhere you go.

And I think probably Pam,

our administrative assistant probably

is the happiest about it.

She's, it's funny to watch her get all excited

'cause the dog's been stationed down

here for the last couple weeks.

But he's, he's been successful

and he's been out inside, outside the community

and en engaged with a bunch of different programs.

And then our primary focus this year is going

to be on leadership training.

I really want to focus on developing

and mentoring our lieutenants and captains

and preparing them for the job that they have.

So a lot of the, the training that we're gonna target

and focus will be on making sure

that they get the tools that they need.

One of our first programs that we're working on,

and I have limited seating on it,

but it's basically a, a supervisory

legality of supervision put on by the fire academy.

It's a new program that they're starting.

They put out the email the other day and I jumped on it.

So we have our first session with

that is scheduled at the beginning of July

and then over the next several months working

to get the assistant chief in place so that I can

actually have a chance to breathe as we look to the future.

We talk about things like the ISO,

the Insurance safety organization and accreditation.

The way that I look at it,

I think ISO is a little bit more valuable.

I think accreditation is a nice to have.

It's a, I think that's a long term goal in my mind

and when I think they both come with

investment by the community.

But I think return wise, the community sees more

of a benefit by having a better ISO rating,

especially our commercial, but also the residential side.

We'll see decreased insurance rates.

So my, my, my intention is to continue to pursue

and set the department up to be successful and,

and hopefully reach an IO one.

I think we're in a good position to at least get

to a two long term.

I think one is attainable

and that'll set us up naturally for accreditation.

And I think accreditation is

that kind of feather in the cap.

There's, there's, there's some, some costs associated with

that that are different, that are basically paying someone

out to come out and say, Hey, you're accredited

and you've met all the standards.

So it's a nice to have. I don't think it's the priority.

I think the priority is improving our ISO rating so

that we all benefit from the, the decreased insurance rates.

The curve ball with that is, is that OSHA's coming out with,

with what I'll call a landmark decision.

The fire brigade standard is 40 some odd years old.

In February they released a new updated standard

that's going to have significant impacts across to,

to a greater extent to all emergency services,

but more specifically the fire service.

So not getting going down a rabbit hole,

but osha, Massachusetts became an OSHA state around 2019.

They basically said they're gonna kind

of be hands off on the fire service.

They're kind of gonna defer to some of the other ones,

niosh, NTSB

or some of the other agencies NFPA to

investigate and to deal with problems.

They turned around in February of this year

and said that was all great and all,

but now it's time to take those NFPA standards

that are just consensus documents

and now they're adopting 'em as OSHA law.

So a lot of the things we already do,

so it's not a huge lift for us,

but there are some things that are in the package

that when it comes back from public comment

and they actually issue it out, have the potential

to create some, some significant challenges,

not only from our department

but also from a, from a financial impact.

So that that's gonna be the curve ball

that may throw us having to go in a different direction.

The staffing, I have two areas of concern downtown.

I don't love the fact that we run a two person ladder

and a two person engine downtown.

I think as we start to look at bringing a third ambulance

online, I think there's some opportunities to figure out how

to increase the staffing on that, those two pieces

of apparatus while still maintaining a

or to have the capability of operating a third ambulance.

I have a couple of different formulations of, of

how I think it could work out and it's kind of just looking

and seeing with some of the data shakes out.

Again, March was about a year that we've been in the,

the software system that we're using.

So we're continuing to build data

and then a long-term goal of mine would be to try

to figure out how to tap into community integrated

paramedicine or mobile integrated healthcare.

I think that that's an amazing service

that we have the potential to offer the community.

I think there's great benefits

and I think that there's, it's kind of a whole nother branch

and there's some challenges with getting into it,

but as we start to work through some of those challenges,

I think it's a great service that is going

to provide kinda like a full spectrum set

of care for the community.

So not only are you gonna get the, the folks

that are following up on you,

but the folks that are responding during your emergency.

It's kind of gonna be that all same,

that whole family and network.

So I'm, I'm pretty excited.

It's just kind of getting through some of the challenges

that are in front of us for that.

And then the last two challenges that we're faced

with on a regular basis is, again, hiring staff.

That continues to be, not only is it a long process,

but it's, it's it's, it's a challenging process to find

not only a number of candidates

but the right candidates we are being, we're we're kind

of raising and elevating the bar with with, with

how we're doing that process.

And then equipment.

I think equipment is one of our biggest challenges.

Not from the fact that we guys aren't being very supportive

in the hauls that purchase equipment,

but the supply chain issues that is really crushing us.

And I think as you look to the future,

if this doesn't get better, we've gotta really think of

how we're replacing capital items.

So if you think that you're due for a fire truck

that was normally gonna come in, in 12 months,

ordering it this year when it was,

when really kind of needed it.

Next year we're looking at three, four years

for delivery on some of these pieces of equipment.

So it really kind of changes the dynamic.

And I gotta say Kenny Fisher and

and his crew do a phenomenal job of keeping stuff running.

I have some concerns about the ladder. We just got word.

So we ordered the ladder in June of 22.

I'm not expecting to see the latest update.

And I had, they asked me to sit down

before they told me was July of 26.

So we're looking at four years on that,

that piece of apparatus.

And I know that that's the one that paints me.

'cause every time I go to, every time I go

to finance committee, that's the first question they asked

me is, where's the ladder truck?

And it's ordered. It's just, it's, it's still paper.

So ambulance two, which we ordered in June of 23 is slated

for July of 25.

Again, I'm, I'm not holding my breath.

'cause Ford continues to have challenges

with not only getting chassis but the, the diesel engines

and then engine one that we ordered in June of last year

as well has been pushed off.

We're expecting that December of 25, maybe January of 26.

So these are things that you we're holding onto pieces

of apparatus a little bit longer than we probably should be.

Fortunately we have a good DPW crew

that's working really hard to keep everything on the road.

But we've, we've had situations even in the last couple

of days where even all of our spare apparatus is,

is, has been outta service.

So it's a dynamics dynamic situation.

And I think the one thing I'll say that's that I'm starting

to notice and I'm, I'm somebody who's about like,

find a problem, fix a problem, move on, get the problem,

get the next problem, fix the problem.

Like I like to see results

and I like to, to move the problems

and a lot of times I feel like I'm not getting enough

traction and then I sit back

and I look at a couple different things

and I'll say, the one thing that I'm noticing is

that there's definitely a palpable change in the energy

of the department from even

16, 18 months ago.

So I feel like we're starting to kind of come together.

I feel like they understand how, what my expectations

and are and how I operate and I know their dynamics

and I think we're kind of, there's a little bit

of wind in the sail and I'm feeling very positive about the

direction that the department is going.

So with that, I thank Mr. Erickson

for his support over the last two years

and also the board, you guys have been phenomenal

and great support.

So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you Chief Ms.

Pop saw you first.

Thank you for that update. I had a couple of questions.

You mentioned what you found the issues to be with the,

with the equipment and the supply chain,

but can you speak a little bit more,

I'm gonna ask my shortest question first.

What is the, the firefighter

who's retiring, what's his name?

The most recent one,

The one on seven 11

Is Deputy Dan Dow. Dan

Dow,

Thank you.

And what Fire station

Downtown.

Okay, thank you.

The, the longer question is what do you think is attributing

to those personnel challenges of hiring?

What's, what's attri?

Because you said you raised the bar

and what do you think is contributing to those issues?

So I think that the, the primary reason is, is

that I think less people are interested in doing this job.

And I don't know if it's,

and I'm speaking generically for industry-wide,

not just specific to Natick problems.

'cause I think it's, it's a global issue.

I think the fire service has done a great job of

always promoting what a great job it is.

But I think in the last several years we really talked a lot

about the PTSD, the trauma associated with it, the,

the cancer problems.

So I think a lot of people are less interested in doing

this, this line of work.

I think naturally as you see, if you look,

our trades are hurting.

So like plumbers, electricians, all of those folks.

And I think a lot of those folks were naturally drawn

to the fire service as well.

So I think kind of looking across the board,

there's just not a lot of people that are,

that are pursuing the career path.

And I think you listen to anybody

and it's like nobody wants to be, name it this a mechanic.

Nobody wants to be this, I don't

know what people are doing for work.

I would love to know. But the reality is, is I just think

that there's less people, I think there's less people in the

workforce and I think there's less people interested

in One way getting dirty.

It's not, it, it's, it's a great job

because you have the opportunity to get out

and actually interact with people.

And I think that's the, the best part about our job,

the worst part about our job is

that you're also interacting with people, right?

Because you're dealing with them sometimes when they're,

they're worse sick, they're having, they're really sick

and they're, there's body fluids and there's yucky stuff

and you know, you're dealing with situations that are,

that can be pretty traumatizing.

So I think this is a whole combination. Thank you.

If I can add just briefly, one of the dynamics of Natick

that not as unique to Natick

but isn't always shared amongst other communities is

that we do have a full service fire

and paramedic slash EMT service, which makes

our recruiting uniquely more complex

because we're looking for somebody with more

of the paramedics background rather than

you can largely train firefighters

from any background really.

Whereas we're adding a layer of skill.

So that's part of that raising the bar, we're trying

to make sure that we get that skill if

at all possible coming in.

And it, and it's d it's complicated by using kind

of what's really an an entry level process

and we're looking for folks with a paramedic

as essentially an associate's degree.

So it creates a, an extra layer of challenge.

And I also think that, you know, the difference between now

and 10 years ago is, is that you have

probably 200 fire departments in the commonwealth.

Everybody's hiring. So there's a lot more opportunity

to go lots of different places.

Mr. Ted, thank you Mr. Chairman.

Chief Ky, I want to start out by saying

I think you guys do a great job.

I just want to acknowledge that I kind of want, wanted

to go back to mutual aid for a minute though.

What do you think the cause of our

imbalance in mutual aid requests is?

Why, why are we requesting so much mutual aid?

I think it's a volume versus ability to supply the assets.

So when you look at,

we're getting to that point

where the third ambulance would offset that I,

I don't think we'll ever be at zero,

but we start approaching that most places give away four

to 6% of their call volume for, for EMS we're starting

to approach the 10% mark.

So that would be indicative to me that we probably should

consider getting that third ambulance staffed.

So you think it's, you think you think the third ambulance

would substantially ameliorate that problem?

I think it would. I think the challenge is is that

that goes back to when we tracked the simultaneous calls.

We're always gonna have opportunities

where we're not gonna have enough resources

to throw at the problems that we have,

which is the whole reason why mutual aid's there.

But it's how do we keep that, minimize that number

and I think we would have a significant impact on it.

I don't wanna say that it's gonna eradicate all of it,

but I think it would have a,

a significant impact. And again, well

I I would imagine we want some kind of a balance between

how much we give and how much we take.

That's ideal.

Yeah.

And you've mentioned the simultaneous calls

and I was wondering, which, which was one

of my questions, so thank you for that.

I was wondering, you know, if

we've been able to manage the

extra time it takes to get to a hospital since there is no

ER over at Leonard Morris anymore, have we managed to work

with that in a way that is, is reducing our

need for mutual aid?

So I don't know that, I mean

that's truly the ideal setup is to have a,

an ER in your community

because that results in the quickest turnaround.

You're essentially like, you're out of service

for such a small period of time,

basically the transfer of the patient.

So I, unless,

unless we were open emergency room,

I don't see that that changing.

So that's kind of the, the new norm that we're living in.

I think as you see some of the improvements

of the hospitals around kind of being able

to meet their surge and meet their call volume,

it's resulting in less time

that were spent at the emergency room

and more time to get back in service.

So I, I didn't actually, I didn't run that number,

but I believe I'd be able to show that we're probably,

as we're coming out of Covid,

that number's probably decreased a little bit,

but that number's always gonna be a factor

because it doesn't matter what we have

to leave the community to go to emergency room.

Yeah, yeah, I was kind of what I was getting to. Okay.

Thank you very much and I really appreciate the update.

Thank you. Thank you Chief Ske, always great to hear

how the department's doing

and as you know, I love all the numbers and,

and the data that, that you've been sharing and,

and I would love to see that in a report that comes

to the select board.

I know we can look at the meeting,

but if there's a way that you can get some of that,

if there's reports that you run from first due

or something like that, I would love to see

that on a regular basis as well with some of the statistics

that you've, that you've mentioned tonight.

So it's, I am gratified to hear about the ambulance moving

to station four

and I would love to see like data on now

how the call volumes are and and how that's all working out.

So if you can, if you can, if there's something

that you can easily do, I don't wanna add too much

to your workload, but if there's,

if there are standard reports

that you can provide, I would like that.

So I noticed that overtime is still,

is still an issue and going up.

Do you feel like that's going to continue to be a problem

for the foreseeable future

or are you hopeful as, you know, you,

you get more people hired that that will go down?

Or is that just the cost of doing business these days?

So yes, that's, yeah, that's, that's,

that's the unfortunate side of things, yes, that is a cost

of overtime, cost of doing business.

I will say that I think the overtime numbers are

significantly improved from years past last year.

I think when you look at that, the report

that you get every month, I think it, it, it translates to

that we're kind of keeping it in check,

but it is always gonna be a problem.

Again, as we carry vacancies

by contract, they're allowed to have

so many folks off at a time.

We add in injuries, the cancers that we have, all

of those complicate those numbers so that

that's why there's such a fluctuation.

And then as we onboard folks, we've gotta send them

to school or send 'em off to training.

So it's, we're doing the best that we can

and I think that that's unfortunately, I think

until we correct the number of vacancies.

And then also I think if you look at that number,

we've gotta eventually normalize what that, what

that baseline number is

and I don't think we have a good strong number on that yet.

Alright, thank you. Just a couple more questions.

The third ambulance gratified to hear that

that's a possibility

and it sounds like it's something that we do need.

What's the, the timeline for that in terms of an analysis

or what's your potential plan

for implementing it and the timeline?

If you're more than willing to give me eight,

I will put it up tomorrow.

I think we also need to hire though,

when we have seven

openings, that's part of the challenge too. Yeah, yeah,

Yeah.

So, and it's, again, I think

that there's some opportunities depending on how we do it

and reading some of the fine print on some of the grants

that are out there because we may be able

to make something more compliant and there's some balancing.

So working on it, it's, it's, it's

there, there's a lot that goes on on a day-to-day basis.

And I, I'm, I'm really looking forward to getting

that assistant chief position in, in place

because that's, that's gonna really afford me a little bit

of latitude to run extra data

reports and do things like that.

Last question is about osha.

I understand that's very new probably,

and you're, we're probably trying

to understand the impact of it.

Do you expect that it's gonna cause

problems for next year's budget?

I don't know. Oh, okay.

So the original con the original public comment period was

supposed to end in April or May.

They extended it out to June, middle of this month sometime.

Some of the requirements of some of the, the foreshadowing

that they're doing is basically there'll be stuff that'll be

a six month implementation period to a 24 month period.

Okay. So the answer is, I don't know what

the final law doesn't isn't kind of written in stone yet.

So I don't know what the timeline is.

So my, my pre-warning when I spoke to Mr. Erickson back in

February when this came out is, is that this is,

I think it's gonna be great for the fire

service down the road.

I think this implementation period is going to be difficult.

It's going to be hard and you know, that's the way

that they choose to do it.

It's, it's, it's gonna be a bumpy road for a little while.

All right, thank you. And thank, thanks to you and,

and all of your staff

and employees who, who do a fabulous job.

So appreciate it. Thank you.

Smoke. Do you have any No, I just, a couple things.

There's a lot of ditto involved

when you go through the accomplishments

that you've had in the past year.

I just think of to myself, that's a lot of stuff

that that was implemented and it's complicated

and it's a lot of moving parts,

so I appreciate all the work that you

and hours that you've spent making sense of it.

One of the things you mentioned was that you have a

palpable change in the mood

of the fire service in town.

And I can tell you in talking to firefighters, especially

recently at the firefighters memorial, it's well understood

that that Natick is a great fire department,

a great place to work.

And I think that's a, an infectious thing that,

that will help recruitment

because as you know, firefighters talk to each other

and they say, well how are they treating you over there?

And they answer is going to be largely, hey,

it's a good place, it's a good community, very supportive,

and we want to continue that trend.

So kudos to you for establishing that culture.

And one of the things when Mr. Erickson came in, one

of his goals was to establish a responsive culture

and a customer oriented culture, if you will.

And he's been able to establish that I see the same,

I get the same sense from the fire service that

that's happening over there as well.

So you're doing a great job with that.

Mr. Sidney asked my question about the ambulance circuit

going to the greater, greater distance

in terms of the hires.

Do we have anybody who's in the academy that's imminently

coming on board or?

Yes, so we have a, a graduation on Friday. Oh good.

So we have an individual, we actually had two

individuals in this academy class.

The first individual made it about a week into the program

and decided that he didn't quite realize the job

that a firefighter does.

So he decided to kind of pursue a different career.

So unfortunate it was a great, great, great person.

Yeah, I just think that sometimes you have a a reality.

A reality and then, and a

and a vision that don't match each other

and it, it can be a difficult job.

One thing that you had just mentioned that I, I had forgot

to put into my notes on the recruitment side, that's one

of the things that I've been trying, the message

that I've been trying to get out to folks is, is if,

you know people talk to people,

tell 'em about the department, they are

ultimately the firefighters on the street are

our ultimate recruiting tool.

If they're, if they're positive

and they're speaking highly of the department that is going

to attract other individuals.

And we're starting to see different programs.

We had a, a ride, someone who did their paramedic ride time

with us a little over a year ago.

We ended up hiring her last July.

So it was a good success story.

We have another gentleman that's going to be trying

to do some ride time with us in the next couple of months.

I'm hoping that that's also another success story.

So we're trying to do a couple different

things outside the norm.

Good, good. Thank you Chief very much for this update.

Very, very comprehensive in in less than a half hour.

So great job.

I figured if I did an actual full presentation,

we would be here all, all night.

So thank you. Thank you,

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Do you have five minutes? Sure.

Let's take a five minute recess.

We'll be back here at about eight o'clock. You're back on.

Okay, we're back on.

Next up we've got the Affordable Housing Trust talking

to us about accessory dwelling units.

And Ganesh, please introduce yourself and take it away.

Oh, there it is. Alright. Thank you.

Ganish Chandran, chair of the Affordable Housing Trust.

Good evening, Mr. Chair. Select board members.

And Mr. Erickson happy to be here.

Should I just start the presentation?

Jimmy, is that the full screen or is it, I

Have it on full screen.

Oh, I apologize.

There should be more.

Yeah, there it is. Thank you.

So I'm here to talk about the accessory dwelling units

or ADUs and, and what we have been working as a trust

and also together with the

town administration over the last

like year, year and a half.

Next slide please. Just as a primer,

an A DU, there can be three ways.

The one can have an A DU, it could be an internal A DU,

like a single family home with like an A DU carved inside

or it could be an addition to a single family home

that is kind of attached, that's exterior

where these two buildings are kind of connected

to each other, but each has its own entrance.

And third, it can be like a standalone unit in a backyard.

So the granny flat as it's called,

there are more than one ways they have been referred to.

Next slide please. And when we talk about housing,

it's, it's easy to kind of, you know,

put them into separate buckets.

You know, there's a veterans housing,

there's a senior housing and all that.

And what's unique about a ds, it's like perhaps one

of the most versatile housing typologies

and they can accommodate a student

or an artist with a, you know, a working art studio.

It could be, it could be a senior citizen aging in place,

you know, it could be a ward of the state,

a young family or an end graduate.

So it truly is a building type that lend itself to a range

of demographic groups.

Next one, I mean I perhaps I'm

preaching to the choir here.

You know, we are in the middle of a housing crisis,

an affordable housing crisis, not just in Natick,

but you know, as a country as a whole

and definitely as part of the commonwealth.

And over a third of the residents in Natick

meet the definition of cost burden,

which means they're paying more than 30%

of their income towards their housing.

And what's paradoxical about the times we are is the

households sizes have been coming down gradually since 1980

and, and the house sizes have been increasing.

So it's kind of this inverse graph like large, larger

and larger unit and smaller and smaller family sizes.

And the median price is $850,000

and that was just a 20% increase from

2022 to 2023.

Next slide please.

I mean the, the term aging in place, you know, most

of us are familiar with,

and this is a perfect unit type that allows

for residents to age in place.

It's, it, you know, but a lot

of our housing stock have been built

before like 19 70, 19 80,

where you don't even have a bedroom in like the first floor

in some of, of the older units.

So what this does is it does eliminate like, you know,

having to like go to your bedroom with your stairs

and you can have a fully accessible x-ray dwelling unit

and maybe your children or like it could be rented out.

It, it provides a means of income sources to the seniors

and allows them to be staying in town.

Next one please.

So there's a whole range

of reasons why an A DU adoption is like

increasingly becoming common sense.

The least of all is it's, it's part of early the $4 billion

affordable housing act proposed by the governor

and now it's the $6 billion bill that's in the,

that was just approved by the house

and it's going to the Senate.

What it would do, it would allow a DU as of right,

but ultimately the municipalities would have control in

terms of mandating the bylaws and, and the rules.

And, and ADUs also help maintain the residential character.

Like you could walk in a, in a street

with single family homes

and you with maybe like 20 single family homes.

And even if you build 20 ADUs behind, you could just walk,

you wouldn't even know the difference if, if,

if the property size are correct.

And it creates what's called the gentle density

and the, the number that's thrown

around is about 900 square feet

or 50% of the area of the main primary unit.

A significant portion of the money

and housing goes towards land and a DU completely.

You don't have to pay for the land if the owner

of the property is building an A DU,

I mean they're sustainable, they're small footprint

and they are affordable.

The next slide,

I mean, but that said, it's not without challenges on a

per square foot basis.

ADUs are not inexpensive to construct

because the, the cost of a home, a bulk

of the cost happens in the kitchen

and the bathrooms which you have to build in the A DU.

So on a per square foot basis, ADUs are more expensive.

But if you add that to the part of the larger unit,

ultimately you are increasing the value of your property.

And there are not that many financing options

that are available for ADUs,

but it's, it's just starting to happen.

You know, there, you know, there,

there are recent certain neighborhoods argue against a

neighborhood, though they have not been proved

by any studies in terms of whether they cause any additional

traffic or not.

And ADUs also require a specific kind

of construction expertise.

And you know, the previous speaker,

the chief was talking about trades

and you know, we, we do there, there, there seems

to be like, it's, it's, it's a growing market right now

in terms of bright spots.

The, the Freddie Mac has started a program in support

of ADUs and there are more and more municipalities

and cities and Massachusetts including like Salem

Barnstable, they're all having as of right ADUs.

And, and there's also been a greater public awareness, just

to put things in perspective in California

once they started the as

of right a d they you could build two ADUs as

of right in California right now.

So, and A DU and then they call A-J-A-D-U,

that's a junior A DU.

And they have really starting to make a difference in terms

of the increasing the housing stock across the state.

Next slide.

I mean, some of you, or most of you may be familiar

with the Natick family suite zoning.

This is our answer for a DU

but unfortunately it has not yielded too many units

because we asked this question in a DU survey,

which I'll talk about later.

Most, most of the homeowners are not even aware of such a, a

existence of family suite zoning

and they're, you know, honestly a little too restrictive

when you, when you put more

and more rules on top of it, people don't want

to take the trouble of building it.

And that's, that's something I would highlight when we

talk about the survey too.

Next slide please. This was

a, this slide was taken from a study

by Amy Dane calling the, the state

of ADUs and the Commonwealth.

So it can, you can split the towns into three buckets,

you know, the towns

and municipalities where you have unrestricted occupancy

for an A DU restricted by and then there's no a DU zoning.

And you could see where we are right now.

We do not have an A DU zoning, we have a lot of company,

but that's not good company here in terms

of increasing housing stock.

Next slide please. So I I

I talked about some of these, you know, it it could,

you know, even if you are not necessarily building a

affordable housing unit that goes

by high definition you are increasing housing supply

and you know, maybe you make it affordable

for your own child by building something at the, in the

behind your house and or, or, or your parent.

So they, you know, they do provide an opportunity

for seniors stage employees.

They're small scale

and they also leverage the,

the recent legislative prerogatives.

So we, the next slide please.

So we ran a survey, it's still active about, you know, we,

we started in spring, there were about 260 responses

by last count to the survey, which was pretty incredible

to like have, and the,

the responses were overwhelmingly positive.

The next slide. And we had a whole series of outreach

to get the word out, you know, through social media.

We presented it in the planning board,

it presented the Council of Aging, the NAIC reports

ran an article on that and faith-based groups

and Natick sent it out as part of their email.

And clearly all these were helpful in getting us the kind

of responses About

90%, 92 of those who responded,

they live in the town more than 50%

or close to 50% owned a property.

So did, did this, you know,

helped us get a cross section like

about 16% worked in the town and

and a fifth of them, they either owned a business

or they were working in town.

Good. One member of the select board.

Okay, sorry, it's just one point there.

Elected member of select board is on there.

Okay, so one

of us answer Yeah, admitted that admitted,

I mean there are a couple of slides which I found was very

encouraging because these, you know, the, those

who responded were not,

they didn't follow in specific age brackets, you know, those

who were like, you know, 30 to 35 were just as interested

just as those who were 75 years of age.

And, and if we move to the next slide where it talks about,

which you know about

this, I talked about this about 90,

more than 90 on the place.

And the next one is the precinct.

And this is like fascinating

because like it, it wasn't by, you know, limited to those

who are living in the downtown area.

Everyone thought it was a good idea

and that, you know, we, we haven't really sliced it

by like which age group in each precinct.

But I think this slide by itself tells the story

and most of them were not familiar

with the family suite bylaw and that was not unsurprising.

And when we asked the question,

should ADUs be allowed in 80, simple question, you know,

80% 83 said yes, about 10

or 8% said yes, but certain neighborhoods

and then there were bunch of, you know, marginal responses,

but the answer was very clear.

People are interested And

in terms of like what are the things that are concerned,

they're all we need to take away from this is like,

you know, people wanna make sure the

bylaws address all these things.

Whether it's a lot size parking noise,

whether it should be limited.

I mean the what sticks out family non-member members

that is the least critical.

They, they didn't think it has to be limited

to family members, which is

what our family suite does right now.

And people are concerned about rentals.

So as long as we have the right guardrails that should help.

And these are like check all that apply kind of question

and the, I mean I just listed the top eight, you know,

it's like facilitating intergenerational household

and opportunity to move into a smaller unit while still

living in town and like leveraging the existing property

value, passive rental opportunity

and know increasing the value of the home.

All, you know, all good things.

And when we asked them the question,

what would limit your ability to build an A DU, the,

the top thing that stood out was, you know, top two,

I would say our top three, the zoning, cost of construction

and lack of financing.

Those things kind of stood out.

Just a case in point Newton,

they had their A DU ordinance passed sometime in 2017

and they barely build like less than 10 ADU a year.

I think right now they have like less than like 80 80.

So just because you pass an a D ordinance

doesn't mean you're gonna be flooding.

So it all depends on the details.

And one question we asked, this is more about like,

you know, a DU policy

and fine tuning how important it is to have an, you know,

to make sure we have ADUs close to the town center,

close to the train stations.

Because if we were to go strictly by the lot sizes,

you don't have too many large lots close to the town center,

about 50% of them said yes, we have to kind of make it work.

And then like a third of them said yes,

but certain conditions.

So that is something we would strongly encourage the

planning department to think just

because a lot is like smaller than like, you know,

half acre property in South Natick doesn't mean it doesn't

lend itself to an A DU.

And even though they were enthusiastic about ADUs

and all that, they didn't think they're gonna like build it,

you know, they were like, yes, it's a good idea, you know,

I, but I don't need it but I will support it.

That seems to be some of the, what some of them are saying

and a third of them said yes, maybe they'll build it.

So in terms of recommendation

or like, you know, the top one would be like, it should be

by ride approval and not by special permit.

And that is also part of the, the A DU, the the,

the affordable housing law.

That's, that's going to be one of the key parts to it

and allowing for both attached and detached a DS

and not, you know, encumbering them

with additional parking requirements and no residency

or owner occupancy requirement.

I, we think that's important.

And no limited restrictions on the housing age and,

and being more open in terms of permit fees

and also at the same time making sure even if you have the

rule in place, there is awareness

and there's education in place

to make sure people can do it.

And in terms of additional ideas like mitigating the small,

it's a small lot penalty.

If someone is living in a small lot in a small home,

they shouldn't be unduly penalized

for not being able to build an A DU.

Of course it depends on the details, the depth of the lot

and all that, but thinking about it is,

is an important perspective from the equity angle

and, and also allowing, you know, creating a pathway

to compliance for previously unpermitted AEDs and,

and, and allow for separate sale or conveyance.

Again, these are all details,

but these all can be worked out later on.

So in terms of the next steps, you know, we, you, you know,

we are proud to say like, you know, there's been a lot

of check marks here thanks

to my colleagues at the Affordable Housing Trust,

David Fishman and Reggie Lease

who have been like charging this, you know,

we have reached out to administration

and you know, we completed the survey.

We are starting our outreach to town committees.

We just presented to the Council for Aging

and they were very excited by this

and we hope to like talk about this during Natick days

and we plan to continue our social media outreach.

So here's hoping maybe by fall maybe we can take a baby step

by like making the family suite, making an amendment to

what we already have in place

before we start putting new things on the books.

Thank you.

Thank you very much Ganesh.

That was great Presentation questions. Ms.

Slager,

Thank you.

And thank you for very informative presentation

and I don't know what you did,

but you getting more responses from precinct one is

unprecedented in town.

That was my thought. Unbelievable.

And and that's really great

that you got that kind of representation.

I just have a question about, I mean I,

I have not studied a DU regulations in, in other areas,

but I assume you've probably have

and are familiar with them,

but when it means buy, right, what does, what does

that really mean in terms of when there are

existing regulations for setbacks and height

and wetlands and all of that?

Does that mean that those are ignored

or do you still have to follow? I

Think you still have to follow it is like you would not

need a special permit to build an A DU as long as, you know,

Mr. Erickson can even talk more about that.

But, but it it,

the zoning should say if one is building an A DU in the

single family, there needs to be this much setback

and you know, that kind of thing. But Right.

But, but given that's essentially a follow on that before,

before you answer that, given that we have

so many non-conforming lots that already don't exist, does

that mean that an A DU could continue

with the non-conforming aspect of it? So

Yeah, I, I think much depends on the details

of the individual project.

So a lot of times what's triggering a section six finding,

which is what we heard about earlier TIN tonight is, is

a building a structure is being altered in some way.

If an A DU is all within the existing building

or existing structures

by right means you can just go pull building permits

and so long as you're compliant

with the zoning you can pull those building permits.

You don't need to go through a discretionary review in front

of the ZBA or the planning board.

If there's building modifications,

depending on the building modifications,

that modification might require

a section six finding in front of the ZBA for example.

But the use itself would still be allowed by Right.

If that makes sense.

Okay. Alright. So,

so it it still doesn't eliminate the potential for having

to go to the ZBA

So much depends on the individual project individual a lot

and what's happening on that lot, but not the laws.

Yeah, well yeah, I mean it's in essence what we're, what the

a DU bylaws that I, that I've worked with, where that seems

to be contemplated by the presentation is that that use

so long as it meets a set of parameters such

as size restrictions

or percentage of existing structure restrictions or,

or obviously the underlying the, the zoning restrictions.

Like you can't necessarily, if you're building a a,

a detached one was one of the examples

and there isn't an existing structure

that you're building it into.

So it's a new structure, it doesn't mean you can

build that on the lot line.

It means you still have to meet all the zoning requirements

such as setbacks and the like.

But if you meet all those, you can pull a building permit,

you can do that work without having to go

to the planning board of the ZBA

and that's what BuyRight typically means.

Right? But given that many of our properties don't meet

that currently with the, their existing buildings that,

that are non-conforming.

And do you have any sense of how many of, of

what the potential for this might be in terms of, let's say,

you know, we talked about the, the priorities of it

being close to Natick Center and, and West Natick

and you know, certainly close to Natick Center, there's

so many non-conforming, I mean,

is is this even realistic? I,

I personally think it is because again, every lot

and every project's gonna be a little bit different

and it's gonna be dependent on is it in a structure,

is it in an existing basement

or is it in an out of a detached garage

that you're building it out as an A DU.

So if there, if there are existing structures

that they can be built in, you're not likely needing to go

to get a section six finding

'cause the use of the lab, right?

And the structures are already existing,

you're not altering that structure.

What triggers the section six findings is when you're

altering a structure that is pre-existing non-conforming,

unless it's in a way that's fully compliant. One suggestion

Would be, you know, in, in, you know,

while I was in the private sector as a planner, we used

to do what's called these pattern books.

So it's like, you know, how would you, it's, it's kind

of like a form-based code if you will.

So what we can do, like, you know, even the trust can like,

you know, help pay for this or help do this, it's

to like have a pattern book of sorts for an A DU

that would make the life of the re you know,

regulatory officials a little bit easier.

Let's say if a lot is between like, you know, 40

to like 60 feet, this is, you know,

and the unit is there, I mean we obviously won't be able

to cover every possible condition,

but we could think about like a whole range of site, I mean,

or we can characterize them

or distill them into like specific sets

to make decision making a little bit easier both

for the property owners as well as for the regulators.

Just to give like a cheat sheet of sort

to say if this this is size, this is the configuration

of the A DU, you may want

to think about which works within the rules.

Or we can even let that inform the, the framing

of these rules of

before even like they put the rules in place,

we can have like a pattern book exercise

that can help inform, set these rules.

Yeah. Or guidelines or yeah, form,

form based codes is the next sort of level of regulation.

And, and by and large ADUs are, are for primarily,

and I think in Natick's case is gonna be the bulk

of our single family zoning districts, maybe some

of our rg which is two family zoning.

But even those, since it's already allowing to family it,

it's, I think we have to think through that a little bit.

But the initial proposal anyway, the initial thought as part

of the presentation was looking at our family suite section

of the bylaw and tweaking that so

that it's not limited to family suite.

Yeah. Seeing how that might be applied,

meaning it's not just limited to a family member

that just becomes a DU.

Seeing how that can maybe applied

and then learning from that experience while we're, while,

while the affordable housing trust while the CED while the

community continues to engage, we also need

to see what's happening with the state regulations.

'cause if these become by, right, we might need

to speed up our re re review process

and our guidelines process,

But the state is probably not gonna tell us like the

setback needs to be this much or any of those things.

Ultimately we have to figure

Those things out, make those determinations.

Sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Okay.

Chris, you right,

My comment was about a precinct one

and how impressed that was of the response.

So kudos.

Thank you.

I just have a great presentation

and we've, I think been hearing the same thing

as a board from a lot of people we've talked to

including Catherine, but not limited to Catherine,

but I would say that,

that the approach of tweaking family suite is

probably a reasonable thing to do near term

because logistically we're looking at late August

for something to be on the town meeting warrant for the fall

and it's kind of ambitious to get all the ducks in a row

to achieve that.

And I think a more achievable call would be that how,

how do we tweak the family suite that already exists

and make it more open-ended for non-family.

Thank you. I think we, that seems to be like, you know,

cautionary path to, yeah.

Any other questions? Any questions? Ms.

Weston Roberts please?

I,

I, oh yes. Gail Weston Roberts 26 Western.

I commend you for working on this.

I'm very excited about the idea of the town becoming more

open to ADUs and so on.

And I'd just like to observe that one

of the most painful things about the RG zone,

having gone from, you know,

you can build a two unit on a site

where there was one by right.

One of the worst things about that is the fact that

duplexes are being squeezed onto these lots that are very

disruptive to the architecture of the neighborhood.

And because of the zoning law that I believe dates back

to 1962, they have to have garages, they have

to have long asphalt driveways so

that people can park on the, on the driveway too,

obviously meant to reduce the congestion

on the street parking.

But it occurs to me that ADUs,

because they have so much flexibility in architecture,

they're actually a much better fit

for blending into a traditional

historic neighborhood than these duplexes are.

So if there's some way that the garage requirements and,

and again, it's, it's ironic

because the closer you are to the train station,

the less important garages are

supposedly going to be.

We're supposedly creating housing for people

who aren't going to own cars at all,

like in truly urban areas.

And I just like to point out that that's one

of the selling points, one of the advantages to the ADUs.

And yeah, I'd really like to see some way to

modify the existing garage

and driveway requirements in the zoning.

So that's it.

Thank you. Further questions.

Thank you very much, Ganesh. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Thank you GaN. Okay, Lou,

what happened to my list?

Okay, next up is Jay

with the Natick 1 0 1 series update.

Are you on,

I'm gonna let you present sir.

Okay. Jay Port Paddock Town communications director.

I'm gonna walk us through a Natick 1 0 1 session

as Jamie pulls up the slides.

You keep talking. I'll just give a little bit

of a voiceover in general.

So folks are gonna be less familiar with maybe the phrasing

of Nat Natick 1 0 1 sessions,

but maybe more familiar with Citizens Leadership Academy,

which was a program that was run from 2015 to 2020.

The basic idea was a meeting series.

That was it was an interesting program in the past in kind

of what I'm gonna walk you through, what

we're proposing for the future.

In the past it was more of an application process.

You had typically in 2015, about 50 attendees

that kind of dwindled between 20

or 30 as you progress towards COD.

When it ended in 2020, the program,

it was an interesting process to go through

and figure out the documentation of what existed.

In the past. We didn't do a phenomenal job as far

as just archiving materials.

So it found it more of a fact finding archeology project

to go out and figure out what happened.

In the past. I was able to talk to about 10 staff members

that actively participated, as well as 10 attendees

and residents who actually were part of it.

Generally speaking, it was received very well.

An overwhelming sort of response

that the approval rating was high.

When you start teasing the why, that's

where it got a little bit sparse.

It was the basic idea was to get a

behind the scenes peak at town services.

But like specifically when we were engaging previously,

a lot of the individuals that attended were those

that were most familiar.

So anyone that's in this room right now

or watching on Pegasus, let's call that the 1% of engaged.

This program is gonna kind of shift towards

how do we have a much more open, widespread opportunity

for residents who want that behind the scenes peak.

So if you scroll down, I'll just kind

of go through a program overview.

This is a working document.

I think it should, you guys a good sense of

what we town staff are planning to execute.

So at the highest level, the goal is

to educate residents about the town services we offer across

all the various town departments.

The outcomes ultimately, yes, volunteerism,

and that's really what the previous program was.

How do we take residents that are fairly engaged

and kinda shift them into volunteering

for boards and committees?

But I think there's a broader objective around engagement

and just bringing people probably more like myself.

I'm a 10 year resident. I didn't know that existed.

2015 to 2020.

Probably unlikely that I would've made the trip,

but I think now as a town communications director,

my goal is to figure out how do I find more of myself, folks

that are happy with Natick, love Natick,

but maybe just haven't taken that step

to understand all the town services, whether

or not they take that ultimate step to boards

or committees remains to be seen,

but pulling people closer into an engaged community.

So the audience is not just residents.

The other idea is internally across departmental, it's,

it's been been on the job for about a year and a half,

but like we have probably close

to 20 departments across our town.

It's not a high rate that we all know what each other does.

So we want to take these same materials

and we don't wanna limit the shelf life

to a closed meeting series for 20 or 30 residents.

We want to teach ourselves this.

The select board, the members will be familiar

with the civics engagement project that's going on

with the various middle schools, Wilson

and Kennedy, as well as the high school.

That's a great set of materials for us to bring